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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:02 AM   #1
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Trimming 'Christmas' from trees stirs debate


http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200...eesstirsdebate


In city halls and public parks across the country, stories-high evergreens are being erected and decked with glowing lights and sparkling ornaments.

They look - and smell - like Christmas trees. But not so fast.


In places as varied as Chicago, Reno and Prairie Village, Kan., they're "holiday" trees. In other spots, such as Atlanta, they have no name at all.


This year, the tree-name game has sparked a backlash, with some Americans crying humbug and Christian groups threatening lawsuits over what they say is religious discrimination.


Perhaps the most heated debate is brewing in Boston. The city's Parks and Recreation Department ignited a furor when it advertised the lighting of a "Holiday Tree," scheduled for tonight.


People complained, and the Nova Scotia logger who donated the spruce told newspapers he'd rather feed the tree to a wood chipper than call it that. Said Boston Mayor Thomas Menino: "I consider this tree to be a Christmas tree."


Mathew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel, a legal group that focuses on religious issues, said the mayor's use of "Christmas tree" means there's no need to go to court over the issue. His group's Christmas campaign aims to stop what it views as religious censorship and "political correctness run amok." It is endorsed by the Rev. Jerry Falwell.


"It's like calling a menorah a candlestick," Staver said. "It's wrong. It's offensive. And it disenfranchises a large segment of the community."


This week in Washington, D.C., the "Capitol Holiday Tree" was renamed the "Capitol Christmas Tree" at the request of House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill.


It was called a Christmas tree until the mid-1990s, Hastert spokesman Ron Bonjean said. "The Speaker thought it was important to reflect what Americans call their trees, which are Christmas trees," he said.


Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said using the term "Christmas tree" excludes people of other faiths and backgrounds.


"I certainly don't need spiritual sustenance from the government," he said. "I get that in my church."


Respect for diversity is the most common reason given by those that use the term "holiday tree." In the town of Fishers, Ind., officials advertise the annual "tree lighting ceremony," without using the words "Christmas" or "holiday."


"We want to be sensitive to all ethnic backgrounds and religious beliefs," said Marc Steczyk, a town spokesman. "We're in the business of treating all people how they should be treated."
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:02 AM   #2
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why do people get so worked up about this...

i see no problem with "christmas tree"
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:08 AM   #3
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Pagan Ceremony Tree!

At my fraternity house, since we had a few Jewish members, we called it the ChristmasTreeHanukkahBush!
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:19 AM   #4
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Wow...never thought I'd see a story about a Republican who cares at all about a tree.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:19 AM   #5
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I think this is Lame...


The Christmas tree is not intended to worship Jesus! Its inteneded to celbrate the arrival of Santa Claus.

If it is a nativity scene, okay I can see some people taking issue, but this is a friggen' Christmas Tree...

Would it be okay to call it and X-mas tree, that removes all reference to Christ?
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krepitch
Wow...never thought I'd see a story about a Republican who cares at all about a tree.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krepitch
Wow...never thought I'd see a story about a Republican who cares at all about a tree.
Only if they are cut.....
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoyaltyisaCurse
The Christmas tree is not intended to worship Jesus! Its inteneded to celbrate the arrival of Santa Claus.


Edit: i read it as christmas (ie: christmas is about santa).

is the tree really a santa claus thing? (like a signal light so santa knows where to land)


Quote:
Originally Posted by krepitch
Wow...never thought I'd see a story about a Republican who cares at all about a tree.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 12:31 PM   #9
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Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said using the term "Christmas tree" excludes people of other faiths and backgrounds.


"I certainly don't need spiritual sustenance from the government," he said. "I get that in my church."
That would be Bob's Church of the Sub-Genius, no doubt!
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Old December 1st, 2005, 12:50 PM   #10
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Exactly, this "attack on x-mas" bs is tired. Most Americans don't do one religious thing on x-mas.

Stop trying to blame liberals for x-mas losing it's identity. That happened years ago when christians chose to celebrate it as a commercial holiday rather than a religious one.

Celebrate it how you choose, but a x-mas tree in has nothing to do with christianity.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 01:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by KloD
Exactly, this "attack on x-mas" bs is tired. Most Americans don't do one religious thing on x-mas.

Stop trying to blame liberals for x-mas losing it's identity. That happened years ago when christians chose to celebrate it as a commercial holiday rather than a religious one.

Celebrate it how you choose, but a x-mas tree in has nothing to do with christianity.
Dear Mr. Bah-Humbug

You are correct, "x-mas" has nothing to do with a religious holiday.

But, Christmas does. There are some people (including Americans) that have a religious holiday by holding a mass for Christ. Thus the name...

Just like the derivation of the name "holiday" from "holy day."
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Old December 1st, 2005, 01:13 PM   #12
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i'll be ok with this as long as we can rename a menorah a "holiday candle."
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Old December 1st, 2005, 01:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derm
Dear Mr. Bah-Humbug

You are correct, "x-mas" has nothing to do with a religious holiday.

But, Christmas does. There are some people (including Americans) that have a religious holiday by holding a mass for Christ. Thus the name...

Just like the derivation of the name "holiday" from "holy day."
Thanks for the history lesson, of course you know what I meant.

I realize there are some people that attend mass on christmas and I think that is awesome since that is what the day was originally supposed to be for, BUT that is not what all the bitching is about. The claim is that liberals want to get rid of christmas (another claim of the attack on christianity). Yet, the things they point at have nothing to do with the religious aspect of the day. Christmas tree's? Please. If anyone tried to prevent you from mass that day, I'd be right by your side helping you.

I love christmas for the day of family, but I hate the commercial holiday it has become. So I'm only partically Mr. Bah-Humbug.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 01:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derm
Dear Mr. Bah-Humbug

You are correct, "x-mas" has nothing to do with a religious holiday.

But, Christmas does. There are some people (including Americans) that have a religious holiday by holding a mass for Christ. Thus the name...

Just like the derivation of the name "holiday" from "holy day."
Christmas' pagan origins

Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.


In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.

In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means “wheel,” the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ’s birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: “Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ.”

The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 01:30 PM   #15
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...and if you go back long enough and you'll find no social order and a strict code of survival of the fittest.

Thanks for the history and myth lesson on a winter solstice celebration prior to "Christmas". I presume that most folks know of some of it already.

Things do evolve over time, like the commercialization of holidays but I'm not ready to sacrifice a goat for a healthier crop of wheat in the spring.

However, it would make a good bbq along with sweet potato pie, beer and a tasty cigar afterwards.
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