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Old August 18th, 2005, 05:17 PM   #1
40yearfan
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Trashing our history: troops in Iraq


Trashing our history: troops in Iraq
Thomas Sowell (archive)

August 10, 2005

Back in June, this column pointed out that it is impossible to fight a
war without heroism -- but that you would never know that from the
mainstream media. Nothing heroic done by American troops in Iraq is
likely to make headlines in the New York Times or be featured on the
big three broadcast network news programs.

That fact has now been belatedly recognized in a New York Times opinion
piece, but with a strange twist.

After briefly mentioning a few acts of bravery in Iraq -- including a
Marine who smothered an enemy grenade with his own body, saving the
lives of his fellow Marines at the cost of his own -- the Times' writer
said, "the military, the White House and the culture at large have not
publicized their actions with the zeal that was lavished on the heroes
of World War I and World War II."

Think about that spin: The reason we don't hear about such things is
because of the Pentagon, Bush and "the culture at large."

Neither the Pentagon, the White House or "the culture at large" can
stop the newspapers or the televisions networks from publicizing
whatever they want to publicize. They all have reporters on the scene
but what they choose to feature in their reports are all the negative
things they can find.

The very issue of the New York Times in which this essay appeared --
August 7th -- featured a front-page picture of a funeral for a Marine
killed in Iraq. If you judged by the front page of this and many other
newspapers, our troops in Iraq don't do anything except get killed.

The plain fact is that the mainstream media have been too busy
depicting our troops as victims to have much time left to tell about
the heroic things they have done, the far greater casualties which they
have inflicted on their enemies, or their attempts to restore some basic
services and basic decencies to this country that has been torn apart
for years by internal and external wars -- even before the first
American troops arrived on the scene.

The unrelenting quest for stories depicting American troops as victims
-- including even front-page stories about the financial problems of
some National Guardsmen called to active duty -- has created a virtual
reality in the media that has no place for heroes.

Senator John Kerry has called the activation of reservists and National
Guardsmen "a backdoor draft," as if joining the reserves or the National
Guard is supposed to mean an exemption from ever having to fight. The
theme of troops as victims has been a steady drumbeat in the media,
because of the way the media have chosen to filter the news, filtering
out heroes, among other things.

This virtual reality can become more important than any facts. Even a
young lady interviewer on Fox News Channel -- of all places -- recently
asked a guest how long the American people will be able to continue
supporting the war in Iraq with all the casualties.

All the American deaths in Iraq since the war began are not even half
of the deaths of U.S. Marines taking the one island of Iwo Jima in a
couple of months of fighting. And Iwo Jima was just one battle in a war
that was raging on other fronts around the world simultaneously and
continuing for nearly four long years.

It is not the casualties which are unprecedented but the media
filtering and the gullibility of those who accept the virtual reality
created by the media.

This is a re-creation of the media's role in the Vietnam war, where
American victories on the battlefield were turned into defeat on the
home front by the filtering and spin of the media.

Even the current Communist rulers of Vietnam have admitted that they
lost militarily in Vietnam but hung on because they expected to win
politically in the United States -- as they did, with the help of the
Jane Fondas, the Walter Cronkhites and a cast of thousands in the
streets and on campuses across the country.

The very people who have been anti-military for years, who filter out
American heroes in battle, are now proclaiming that they are "honoring"
our troops by publicizing every death by name, day in and day out.

Has the dumbed-down education in our schools left us so ill-equipped
that we cannot see through even the most blatant hypocrisy?
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Old August 18th, 2005, 05:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40yearfan
Even the current Communist rulers of Vietnam have admitted that they lost militarily in Vietnam
I'd like to see where this guy got THAT information.... I just finished reading a book by a North Vietnamese soldier... His take on the war.... and I certainly didn't see anything about "losing the war." I suspect the "...with the help of the Jane Fondas, the Walter Cronkhites and a cast of thousands in the
streets and on campuses across the country..." is an invention of the hard right (and as you'll remember, I'm no Jane Fonda lover).

Anyway, more to the point, he DOES raise a valid point that there are some real heroes fighting over there and as is possible, recognition should be given to them. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the war, these soldiers are doing their jobs and heroic action is a beacon for for all Americans.

His use of that point is sad, in that he tries to tie the mission of the war to these heroic acts, just as he implicitly states that wanting out of Iraq is somehow disrespecteful to these soldiers. That's garbage, quite frankly. I want every soldier over there to come home right now.... because I want them alive, not dead over a war with an invented rationale. But even with that view, I recognize and appreciate the heroism and work of our soldiers, and I salute them. I'd like to do that in person, not over a flag-draped coffin.

Thomas Sowell is a right-wing columnist who routinely supports the Bush/Cheney agenda. While he does make a good point, this is nonetheless not his best piece.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 06:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleChris
That's garbage, quite frankly. I want every soldier over there to come home right now.... because I want them alive, not dead over a war with an invented rationale. But even with that view, I recognize and appreciate the heroism and work of our soldiers, and I salute them. I'd like to do that in person, not over a flag-draped coffin.

Thomas Sowell is a right-wing columnist who routinely supports the Bush/Cheney agenda. While he does make a good point, this is nonetheless not his best piece.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 06:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleChris
I'd like to see where this guy got THAT information.... I just finished reading a book by a North Vietnamese soldier... His take on the war.... and I certainly didn't see anything about "losing the war." I suspect the "...with the help of the Jane Fondas, the Walter Cronkhites and a cast of thousands in the
streets and on campuses across the country..." is an invention of the hard right (and as you'll remember, I'm no Jane Fonda lover).

Anyway, more to the point, he DOES raise a valid point that there are some real heroes fighting over there and as is possible, recognition should be given to them. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the war, these soldiers are doing their jobs and heroic action is a becon for for all Americans.

His use of that point is sad, in that he tries to tie the mission of the war to these heroic acts, just as he implicitly states that wanting out of Iraq is somehow disrespecteful to these soldiers. That's garbage, quite frankly. I want every soldier over there to come home right now.... because I want them alive, not dead over a war with an invented rationale. But even with that view, I recognize and appreciate the heroism and work of our soldiers, and I salute them. I'd like to do that in person, not over a flag-draped coffin.

Thomas Sowell is a right-wing columnist who routinely supports the Bush/Cheney agenda. While he does make a good point, this is nonetheless not his best piece.
Nice post man.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 06:45 PM   #5
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Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 09:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleChris
I'd like to see where this guy got THAT information.... I just finished reading a book by a North Vietnamese soldier... His take on the war.... and I certainly didn't see anything about "losing the war." I suspect the "...with the help of the Jane Fondas, the Walter Cronkhites and a cast of thousands in the
streets and on campuses across the country..." is an invention of the hard right (and as you'll remember, I'm no Jane Fonda lover).

.
UC, that was the common consenses among our military people. If the politicians would have let the military fight the war correctly, it would have ended a lot sooner and in a victory. Instead of reading a book from a Vietnamese, read one from one of our military men.

http://www.rjsmith.com/69th_book_reviews.html
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Old August 18th, 2005, 10:51 PM   #7
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We had 500,000 troops in Vietnam at the peak of hostilities.
That's 330% of what we have in Iraq.
Iraq is 30% larger than Vietnam - granted, Vietnam was rougher terrain...
To truly "win" in Vietnam, we would have had to kill probably 1-2 million MORE - another 7% of their population in ADDITION to the 2 million that had already died, not a few by our hand...
Back in the day - '70 - Vietnam had 30 million people - Iraq today has 26 million people.
As a chess player, and politics aside, I don't know how much control 135,000 US troops can exert.
It seems that the Iraqis themselves are hellbent on sectarian bickering - which over here results in relatively minor incidents of abortion doctor sniping and gay lynching - over there results in slaughters of whole families.
These people are going to have democracy?
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Old August 18th, 2005, 11:00 PM   #8
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These people are going to have democracy?
Nope, once we hand over control it will be a theocracy followed by many years of civil war.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 06:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40yearfan
UC, that was the common consenses among our military people. If the politicians would have let the military fight the war correctly, it would have ended a lot sooner and in a victory. Instead of reading a book from a Vietnamese, read one from one of our military men.

http://www.rjsmith.com/69th_book_reviews.html
Do not forget, sir, that I was alive, in the military, and in the theatre at that time. I know where the line folks stood..... and I know where the brass stood, and why. And do not forget that there were high ranking military officials who also noted that a war in Viet Nam was unwinable; noting it before we even really engaged there.

I guess you're right, though..... Why would I want to develop a fully informed opinion by reading a book by a Vietnamese soldier....
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Old August 19th, 2005, 01:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleChris
Do not forget, sir, that I was alive, in the military, and in the theatre at that time. I know where the line folks stood..... and I know where the brass stood, and why. And do not forget that there were high ranking military officials who also noted that a war in Viet Nam was unwinable; noting it before we even really engaged there.

I guess you're right, though..... Why would I want to develop a fully informed opinion by reading a book by a Vietnamese soldier....
I have several friends who were in Vietnam. Try convincing them we couldn't have won that war.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 01:51 PM   #11
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Just did a litlle research on Thomas Sowell ( is that a pseudonym ) .

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/t.../archive.shtml

His list of article topics kind of says it all. I am afraid to read them.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 01:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleChris
I'd like to see where this guy got THAT information.... I just finished reading a book by a North Vietnamese soldier... His take on the war.... and I certainly didn't see anything about "losing the war." I suspect the "...with the help of the Jane Fondas, the Walter Cronkhites and a cast of thousands in the
streets and on campuses across the country..." is an invention of the hard right (and as you'll remember, I'm no Jane Fonda lover).

Anyway, more to the point, he DOES raise a valid point that there are some real heroes fighting over there and as is possible, recognition should be given to them. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the war, these soldiers are doing their jobs and heroic action is a becon for for all Americans.

His use of that point is sad, in that he tries to tie the mission of the war to these heroic acts, just as he implicitly states that wanting out of Iraq is somehow disrespecteful to these soldiers. That's garbage, quite frankly. I want every soldier over there to come home right now.... because I want them alive, not dead over a war with an invented rationale. But even with that view, I recognize and appreciate the heroism and work of our soldiers, and I salute them. I'd like to do that in person, not over a flag-draped coffin.

Thomas Sowell is a right-wing columnist who routinely supports the Bush/Cheney agenda. While he does make a good point, this is nonetheless not his best piece.
Hey UC,

I remember reading something about the Tet offensive. I think it was Tet himself (probably mistaking) that said something along the lines that the NVA were being beat but due to the US media he pushed on because the media was making look like the US was loosing.

I will try to find it.

Edit: shows how much I know!! Tet is a time of the year! :idiot:
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Old August 19th, 2005, 02:05 PM   #13
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Tet Nguyen Dan. ( The Lunar New Year ).
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Old August 19th, 2005, 02:08 PM   #14
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Although generally considered a disastrous military failure that resulted in the loss of an estimated 35,000 men killed, 60,000 wounded, and 6,000 POWs, against 2,800 ARVN and 1,100 US KIA, the Tet Offensive has also been seen as a turning point of the war in Vietnam, in which the NLF and PAVN won an enormous psychological and propaganda victory leading to the loss of popular support for the War in the United States and the eventual withdrawal of American troops, effects likely exacerbated by the Johnson Administration's preceding failure to communicate openly with the public about the conduct of the War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive

Yeah Wally... I realized my F'up!!

I was one okay..... cut me some slack!!
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Old August 19th, 2005, 02:13 PM   #15
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I Googled "1956 Vietnam election".
Interesting...
Ho had 80% support in the South?
I guess the peasants believed his spiel about how the Vietcong could improve their lot.
For sure the last couple of presidents in the south had to rely on US support.
We're better at assasinating or toppling leaders that we DON'T like, as opposed to propping up unpopular leaders.
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