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People twist religion into a reason to be hateful towards others. Do you think that some Muslims would be blowing themselves to bits if they didn't believe God had told them to?
How about some christians and their message of hate towards gays? Or abortion doctors getting killed by "Gods soldiers"
You ask what's the worst thing that can happen by having faith? Having it become fanaticism.
Dunno man.. I believe in God and Im not in a hurry to buy some TNT like Willy Coyote from ACME..
And I dont have one feeling toward gay people one way or the other.. If its wrong or right and there is a God, God will deal with it.. Im not God and dont think its my place to tell anyone what to believe or act.. We'll all find out once we take that dirt nap..
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__________________ I'm your favorite poster's, favorite poster
Defending the crown is harder than chasing it
All of you that are finding downsides, you are finding them with religion not God... There are those that have a relationship with God outside of religion.
Gee mentioned nothing about religion, only God...
__________________ I'm your favorite poster's, favorite poster
Defending the crown is harder than chasing it
Dunno man.. I believe in God and Im not in a hurry to buy some TNT like Willy Coyote from ACME..
And I dont have one feeling toward gay people one way or the other.. If its wrong or right and there is a God, God will deal with it.. Im not God and dont think its my place to tell anyone what to believe or act.. We'll all find out once we take that dirt nap..
This is the way I feel as well. Unfortunately not everyone is so enlightened
Also - there are many people that believe silly things like the Earth is 6,000 yrs old.
Too much faith leads to ignorance - look at the Dark Ages - Europe FORGOT how to make concrete, sewage systems, bathing...
I see your quoting the plague or some sembelance of it.. But your are following a humans history not Gods.. We are all dumb, no one is perfect.. We have all done stupid things in life and have a craving to learn more.. Scientics arent correct 100% of the time, and that is what drives them.. To find it all..
Heres the biggest questions Ive ever had.. Forget evolution and the planet earth.. But I will ask why..
Where does the stars end? Where does the universe end? And if this is just all created from a speck of dust, who created that speck of dust to make it all happen?
And if its just evolution, who created that cell in the ocean that made it evolve? And why are there still monkeys and apes on this earth if we evolved from them?
Total dismission of these questions without them being answered is strange to me..
We just dont know.. And anyone that presents themselves as knowning the answeres to me without hard facts, I blow off..
Sorry, Andy, wasnt getting pissy towards you, just things that irk me..
__________________ I'm your favorite poster's, favorite poster
Defending the crown is harder than chasing it
I see your quoting the plague or some sembelance of it.. But your are following a humans history not Gods.. We are all dumb, no one is perfect.. We have all done stupid things in life and have a craving to learn more.. Scientics arent correct 100% of the time, and that is what drives them.. To find it all..
Heres the biggest questions Ive ever had.. Forget evolution and the planet earth.. But I will ask why..
Where does the stars end? Where does the universe end? And if this is just all created from a speck of dust, who created that speck of dust to make it all happen?
And if its just evolution, who created that cell in the ocean that made it evolve? And why are there still monkeys and apes on this earth if we evolved from them?
Total dismission of these questions without them being answered is strange to me..
We just dont know.. And anyone that presents themselves as knowning the answeres to me without hard facts, I blow off..
Sorry, Andy, wasnt getting pissy towards you, just things that irk me..
So knowing all this.. And Imma question this myself.. How do we know who made God?
We dont.. We have no answers to anything.. No one is correct, cuz no one knows.. All we can do is go thru life and be the best we can and make sure we leave this place the best we can.. Cuz whats the alternative? Misery.. No one wants that..
Some chose to believe because we dont know, others dont wanna deal with it cuz they dont know..
Its a vicious cycle..
__________________ I'm your favorite poster's, favorite poster
Defending the crown is harder than chasing it
So knowing all this.. And Imma question this myself.. How do we know who made God?
~snip~
Its a vicious cycle..
It's a great question! And yes...I look at a sunrise or sunset and know that God is there. I see the miracle of birth and how our bodies are perfectly able to provide for ourselves. The way everything has an order and a place in things. The mathematics of the universe. It all points, IMO, to an order of things (like Einstein, I think there is an order to it all, even if he never proofed an equation for it).
What started everything? Science can't answer that question, at least not yet. At some point you either think it was random, or some divine being put it in motion. But what put that divine being in motion? Et cetera, et cetera...on and on forever.
Time and space...how does it relate to who we are now, in the past or the future? Is time constant? Or is it, like in a Vonnegut novel, a viewpoint of where we are now versus where we have been versus where we are going and all viewable at once if we are on the right plane of viewpoint...so it goes.
We will not know until we die and if our conscience ceases to exist at that point we learn nothing new...if we move on from now, then we learn something more. It is man's greatest mystery. Whether we attribute it to god, or to random chance I don't think that faith in a higher being is a problem...and I happen to not believe in random chance forging something so amazing as human life on a planet like ours with evolutionary progress. The randomness of it all happening, and developing as such is so mathematically random that human brains could never understand it.
Perhaps this is all there is...
If so...we are poorer for it.
__________________
I'm the anti-TNT. I don't do drama.
I dont know where Im going with this but this is what I got in my brain right now..
Sitting outside that Denver HS with nothing but rolling hills and the cops coming up to me.. OK.. Lemme back track.. The hills were beautiful..
The hills were beautiful till the LSD students tried to accuse me of things I never did just cuz I was a Cards fan.. Just cuz the football students couldnt whoop my ass.. Till I got turned in cuz I wasnt a Bronco fan.. Cuz I wasnt from Denver..
Then I got phone calls from the police on my phone questioning me about things I never did.. The cops harrassed me.. Id be raking my yard and get some **** eating grin from a cop driving past my house wanting to bust me for nothing..
I got pulled over for nothing cuz I was wearing a beanie one time.. And the cop even told me "I thought you were black" and thats why he pulled me over..
There were cops killing black folks in denver all over the place when I was there.. There was lawsuits..
Ok I lost my train of thought.. But Denver sucks.. Its a white mans city..
__________________ I'm your favorite poster's, favorite poster
Defending the crown is harder than chasing it
__________________
At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
Total dismission of these questions without them being answered is strange to me..
We just dont know.. And anyone that presents themselves as knowning the answeres to me without hard facts, I blow off..
(Big sigh...) The only people I know who engage in 'total dismission' of these questions are people who just say "God did it." They are the only people who present themselves as having answers without hard facts: by definition, people who rely on Faith.
Scientists, who seem (inaccurately) to be your straw-man alternative to 'people of faith' engage in inquiry, and even when they have hard facts, a true scientist keeps wanting to know more about those facts.
NOTE: I know scientists who are extremely spiritual, and every bit as much in awe of the sun rising and setting as any so-called god-fearing faithnik. Many scientists believe in some version of God; in my experience they are perhaps less inclined to believe in a human-ized big Dude in robes, white beard, etc.
If you have studied evolution at all, you know that it is not a single linear progression, but a process that branches off as one member of a species or family has an adaptive mutation and others don't.
Some branches change badly and die out, some change minimally and are just adaptive enough to make it as long as the world around them is fairly stable. There you have monkeys and so on -- however, notice that they are NOT adaptive enough to keep up with the current rapid changes in the world, and if we didn't decide to protect them, they'd soon be as extinct as the wooly mammoth.
Cockroaches, rats, pigeons, jellyfish, and humans, however, are proving remarkably adaptive. We keep appropriate company.
Who told you the universe ends? besides, there are, they tell us, multiple universes. (Buddha said there are as many universes as grains of sand. That the idea of beginning and end are illusions. That time is a human conceptual limitation.)
Why does it have to be a 'WHO' that created that speck of dust? Maybe the question should be, 'WHY do humans think everything functions according to our standards and expectations?
When I first was reading about Islam, I really appreciated the fact that Mohammed stressed that 'Allah' was not humanlike, not animal-like, not male or female in any way, not with form or without form, not physical or non-physical, not anything that could be held within the mind of humans. (A little like Buddhism.) Unfortunately, humans have had to beat Allah into submission to their pathetic anthropomorphic concepts and limitations. So maybe that's why Islam means 'submission.'
__________________
oderint dum metuant (Latin for 'let them hate, so long as they fear').
Well, in truth I'm actually not a total hawk, but I'm not a dove either -- I'm more like an angry pigeon flying over the political arena after a really big meal. -Abba Gav
One other thought --
Buddha said (to paraphrase) 'Why are you worrying about life after death, or things completely outside your control? You can't even get living in this life right!'
So in the interests of trying to live in this life with a smidgen more effectiveness:
__________________
oderint dum metuant (Latin for 'let them hate, so long as they fear').
Well, in truth I'm actually not a total hawk, but I'm not a dove either -- I'm more like an angry pigeon flying over the political arena after a really big meal. -Abba Gav
Also - there are many people that believe silly things like the Earth is 6,000 yrs old.
Too much faith leads to ignorance - look at the Dark Ages - Europe FORGOT how to make concrete, sewage systems, bathing...
People will always believe in some sort of nonsense, it isn't exclusive to religion. For example I have my lucky jockstrap on right now, and yes it does make me kill.
All of you that are finding downsides, you are finding them with religion not God... There are those that have a relationship with God outside of religion.
With comments like mine you would think I have a relationship with God but I don't.
Last night with all the church shows on there was a guy trying to say Earth is only 6000 years old and he could prove every scientist wrong. I wanted to reach through the TV and smack the crap outta him!!!
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