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Originally posted by Floridacard That doesn't explain the weather at all. It just says the water flows in to the sea and ends up back where it started. I can say I put the key in the ignition, turn it, and the car starts. That doesn't explain how though.
That really wasn't a scientific example at all. They don't mention evaporation, aquafirs the realtion to rain and weater systems. They are basically saying it's just by miracle of God that the seas don't overfill. They had no real understanding of what was happening at all. How about the part obout the sun rises and sets than hurries back to where it came from? That's not how it works. Earth revolves around the sun. We see the sun rise and fall because of the rotation of the planet. So they had that part horribly wrong.
6) The wind blows to the south and turns to the north;
round and round it goes, ever returning on its course.
So tell me how accurate that is. The wind just blows around in a circle?
I think that considering when it was written, and things I have been taught, it was pretty scientific back then to realize that waters flowed to the ocean and then ended up back in steams...that takes some science to figure out man.
Mike
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Originally posted by Chandler Mike I think that considering when it was written, and things I have been taught, it was pretty scientific back then to realize that waters flowed to the ocean and then ended up back in steams...that takes some science to figure out man.
Mike
They don't actually explain anything though. They simply say it goes back to where it came from. That's not scientific, the way they say it is simply minded. I really don't see how this helps you cause.
Besides, like Krang said the Aztecs had a very good understanding of weather and calenders. They did that without your bible.
What about the sun and the wind parts?
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Originally posted by Floridacard They don't actually explain anything though. They simply say it goes back to where it came from. That's not scientific, the way they say it is simply minded. I really don't see how this helps you cause.
Besides, like Krang said the Aztecs had a very good understanding of weather and calenders. They did that without your bible.
What about the sun and the wind parts?
It's scientific if you consider a general observation scientific.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Floridacard They don't actually explain anything though. They simply say it goes back to where it came from. That's not scientific, the way they say it is simply minded. I really don't see how this helps you cause.
Besides, like Krang said the Aztecs had a very good understanding of weather and calenders. They did that without your bible.
What about the sun and the wind parts?
I don't know for sure, but I would think that if you believe the Bible is true, then the Aztecs probably didn't exist yet...at least when Ecclesiastes was written.
It's scientific as in it explains a concept of weather, no matter how simple it sounds. Can something NOT be scientific just because they didn't use moden jargon to explain it?
It was a VERY simple time back then, and for someone to know that is pretty amazing to me.
The Sun rises and sets...dunno about this one really, but the winds may sound simple, but it's talking about wind as returning to it's course...which is like a seasonal thing...take our Monsoons for instance...the winds return each year.
That shows me that however "simple" it sounds to you, that for someone to know about winds and how they blow, and that they are on a schedule is pretty amazing to me, especially without the aid of technology.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain It's scientific if you consider a general observation scientific.
Laugh all you want, but you guys obviously cannot comprehend that the time in which this was written, a statement about how the weather works is pretty amazing.
Simple to you, but not to me. For a guy to know that winds blow around and actually have a pattern to them, or for someone to realize about evaporation, and clouds and rain, without any scientific tools is downright amazing.
Originally posted by Chandler Mike Laugh all you want, but you guys obviously cannot comprehend that the time in which this was written, a statement about how the weather works is pretty amazing.
Simple to you, but not to me. For a guy to know that winds blow around and actually have a pattern to them, or for someone to realize about evaporation, and clouds and rain, without any scientific tools is downright amazing.
Mike
I'm not laughing at you Mike, I used the to show that I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. I respect you a lot, and I don't want you to think I'm a mean spirited person.
And I do understand what you are saying, and yes the Bible predates the Aztecs by thousands of years, though it is hard to compare.
I find some of the stuff in the Bible amazing, but I also see inaccuracies. These inaccuracies would not exist if it were truly words from the mouth of God. I still think the message of the Bible remains intact, even if I don't believe everything.
As I've said numerous times, I'm not a Christian, but when I have children I will introduce them to Christianity and teach them the morals.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain I'm not laughing at you Mike, I used the to show that I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. I respect you a lot, and I don't want you to think I'm a mean spirited person.
And I do understand what you are saying, and yes the Bible predates the Aztecs by thousands of years, though it is hard to compare.
I find some of the stuff in the Bible amazing, but I also see inaccuracies. These inaccuracies would not exist if it were truly words from the mouth of God. I still think the message of the Bible remains intact, even if I don't believe everything.
As I've said numerous times, I'm not a Christian, but when I have children I will introduce them to Christianity and teach them the morals.
Okay, sorry for jumping all over you on that one...
What in accuracies? I have a hard time with that, because I don't think there are any.
Originally posted by Chandler Mike Okay, sorry for jumping all over you on that one...
What in accuracies? I have a hard time with that, because I don't think there are any.
Mike
Well to start the ones I posted above.
Not a single person on this planet can see the world from a mountain top. And as I showed, more than once the Bible refers to the Earth in a manner that is consistent with "flatness".
There is a whole branch of Creationist who believe that world is flat.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain I'm not laughing at you Mike, I used the to show that I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. I respect you a lot, and I don't want you to think I'm a mean spirited person.
And I do understand what you are saying, and yes the Bible predates the Aztecs by thousands of years, though it is hard to compare.
I find some of the stuff in the Bible amazing, but I also see inaccuracies. These inaccuracies would not exist if it were truly words from the mouth of God. I still think the message of the Bible remains intact, even if I don't believe everything.
As I've said numerous times, I'm not a Christian, but when I have children I will introduce them to Christianity and teach them the morals.
What inaccuracies? Name some...usually people don't know what is being said or mis-read it.
For instance in the sequel to the book I said to read..The Case for Faith they are talking about how can there be a God that Kills. And people point out ...pg 117
"David was called a man after God's own heart, and yet the Bible says he tortured his enemies," I pointed out. "It says he 'put them under saw, and under axes or iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln.' That sounds cruel and torturous to me!" (2 Sam 12:31)
"Nat so fast." Geisler cauthoned. "You're quoting from the King James Version and it's open to misinterpretation there. The New International Version clarifies the original Hebrew language and says David 'brougt out the people who were ther, consigning them to labor with saws and with iron picks and axes, and he made them work at brick-making."
You see people read things and take one thing from it when it is actually saying something else. Neither the KJV or NIV are wrong but the KJV is harder to understand. This is not an example of a supposed contradiction but of how people misinterperet. I have read on most of the supposed contradictions and there are good responses that explain them all. There are no contradictions in the Bible.
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Originally posted by Krangthebrain Well to start the ones I posted above.
Not a single person on this planet can see the world from a mountain top. And as I showed, more than once the Bible refers to the Earth in a manner that is consistent with "flatness".
There is a whole branch of Creationist who believe that world is flat.
Then they are whack jobs.
Again, like I said before...he's God, and it was Satan...he could probably do what he wanted to show Jesus the kingdoms of the Earth.
And about the flatness, I would like to see verses for these references, so I could see what the context is, etc.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain Well to start the ones I posted above.
Not a single person on this planet can see the world from a mountain top. And as I showed, more than once the Bible refers to the Earth in a manner that is consistent with "flatness".
There is a whole branch of Creationist who believe that world is flat.
It is a matter of interpertation and taking thing literally compared to figuratively. I don't take from your example anything that comes out to me and says the world is flat. You hear people talk about the four corners all the time...are they saying the world is flat.
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I cant believe I am getting into this, but I can't stand to see these things warped.
1) Obviously the idea of seeing all the world from a mountain top is simply colorful language. Hate to inform you of this, but even when that was written it was known that you couldn't see all of the known world from a mountain top. Come on now, Krang -- you are just trying to silly with all of these things. I know you to be smarter than actually believing that someone thought they could see all of the known world from a mountain top back when the nBible was being written.
2) I have heard of people who still think the world is flat -- as a joke.
3) I have not heard of one creationist who believes the world flat.
This is why I don't like where this thread has ended up, you playing stupid with a smile on your face.
So I looked some things up real quick the greek word in Luke to say "of the world" is Oikoumene which can mean "= the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire"
and
the greek word in Mark for "of the world" is Kosmos which can mean "any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort i.e. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews"
So you see it is not a contradiction
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Originally posted by Strong Bad I cant believe I am getting into this, but I can't stand to see these things warped.
1) Obviously the idea of seeing all the world from a mountain top is simply colorful language. Hate to inform you of this, but even when that was written it was known that you couldn't see all of the known world from a mountain top. Come on now, Krang -- you are just trying to silly with all of these things. I know you to be smarter than actually believing that someone thought they could see all of the known world from a mountain top back when the nBible was being written.
Oh really? If people thought the world was flat, then it is safe to assume that they thought there was a possibility you could see the entire earth.
2) I have heard of people who still think the world is flat -- as a joke.
I'm not making this up.
3) I have not heard of one creationist who believes the world flat.
You might not have heard of it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who believe this.
This is why I don't like where this thread has ended up, you playing stupid with a smile on your face.
I'm playing stupid? Trying to insult me now? At First you twisted my words. Then you put words in my mouth. And now, you call me stupid.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by EndZone In response to A challenge to Christianity. I am not sure who said that God can be proven. But I do know that Jesus Christ can be proven, that he died on the cross and was raised from the dead. There were many accounts from non-biblical writers (One of the more famous is Josepheous SP?) most of who were Jewish Historians and all of their other books are counted on as Fact and reliable so these accounts should be too. Jesus was called a sorcerer by these same non-biblical writers implying that he was doing miracles or things that could not be explained.
Archeology has proven the Bible time and time again….Archeology has NEVER disproved anything in the Bible. There have been claims that it has but then there was a discovery to prove it…i.e. Troy.
As far as Prophecy, it was written LONG before Jesus lived. Where he would be born, how, what he would do, how he would die, and how he would be raised from the dead. All of the prophecies were fulfilled.
The New Testament is reliable in that some of the writers like Paul I think it was. Who wrote other documents before he wrote the Gospel and those documents are considered as fact and also considered well documented and investigated. The Gospels were written within 20 to 30 years of Christ’s death where as the Quran was written several hundred years after Muhammad lived.
Great post.
Let's examine the evidence that will prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus indeed existed:
1. Jewish Historian Josephus (A.D. 37- 100)
Writes in Antiquities
"... the brother of Jesus, the so- called Christ, whose name was James."
He goes on to say that,
"At this time, there was a wise man who was called Jesus... Pilate condemned him to be condemned and die... (His disciples) reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crusifiction and that he was alive... He was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."
2. Roman Historian, Cornelius Tacitus, (A.D. 55- 117)
"Hence to supress the rumor, he falsely charged ... and punished witht he most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called 'Christians' ... Christus, the founder of the name was put to death by Pontius Pilate."
3. Greek writer Lucian (2nd Century)
taken from the On the Death of Poregrine
"... the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult... Their first law- giver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they transgressed once and for all by denying the Greek gods, and by worshiping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws."
Roman Historian and Court Official under Hadrian, (A.D. 120)
"... as the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigations of Chestus (another spelling for Christus or Christ), he expelled them from Rome."
Taken from The Life of Claudius.
The list can go on forever.
Recommnded readings:
1. Bruce Metzger, New Testament Texual Criticism
2. F.F. Bruce, New Testament Documents and Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament
3. Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
4. Norman Geisler, Christian Apologetics.
Stefan
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