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Sheesh, I'm gone from this board one day and all heck breaks loose!!
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Originally posted by Krangthebrain You're obviously intelligent and well versed.....
Thanks I do appreciate the compliments!
For the past 6 years, I have studied and have done great deal of research with religion. I'm not talking about just in a classroom (such as those of ASU) but more of a grander scale. What I mean by that is I not only just did research, I also visited their places of worship and asked them questions about their religion and their beliefs (something I strongly recommend doing for anyone...it probably won't change your belief structure but it does give you a great deal of knowledge as to how people from that backround react to certain situations and why they believe the way they believe)
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so you should know, or you are not adding that the time in which Revelations was written is up to debate. Some say it was written during Nero's rule, some say it was the other dude
I will agree with this sentiment to a certain extent. During this particular time frame people from that part of the world (specifically Jewish and Arab countries) were pretty unskilled as it came to keeping time records (for a variety of reasons). For example, many biblical scholars now believe that Jesus was born around 6 A.D. and not 0 A.D.! However they were not that bad...although what I gave was more a centeralised date for john's writing of Revelation (96 A.D.), the majority of dates are only argued at most is 10 years in either direction! That still leaves a large gap in the timeframe between Nero's death and John's writing of Revelations.
It seems as though the person who created the argument of NERO being the beast is probably the same person who made that timeframe argument...just so that they could make their point!
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( his name escapes me at this time ).
Which one...There were 6 new emporers of Rome during sice Nero and until the entire argued point as to when John wrote Revelations:
Galba (68 A.D.)
Vespasian (69-73 A.D.)
Titus (73-81 A.D.)
Domitian (81-96 A.D.)
Nerva (96-98 A.D.)
or Trajan (98-117 A.D.)
Originally posted by Krangthebrain This is possibly the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard....
All though what was said by EndZone does sound ludicrous...he's right. Believe it or not the current theory of evolution has been mathematically proven impossible!! Some of the most prominent mathematicians in history have found out that the theory of evolution developed by Charles Darwin would take times as long as it has been proven that the Earth has existed.
Thus, many scientists have either come to the concept that there either is a creator or they are creating a new theory on evolution!!
__________________ Hellboy: You're in love. You need a beer. Abe: I can't. My body is a temple. Hellboy: Well, now its an amusement park.
Last edited by Evil Ash; July 15th, 2003 at 10:10 PM.
Originally posted by Chandler Mike I'm going to post this here, because for some reason it seemed weird to have it on the "sodomy" thread...this sums up a lot of why I believe what I do:
(I apologize for this being so long, I got long winded )
No, I haven't had a strong faith my whole life...just since I was around 21 or so.
I was born into a Christian household, but really didn't like church growing up...not until I was 21 did I feel a need for it. But there was one day where I woke up and just felt like my life was missing something, and I knew the answer was God.
Since then, I've been going to church and really learned more about God.
Something just "clicked" inside of me when I accepted Jesus as my savior...it was like a relief, like I finally knew what was right.
He's proven his existence to me by many things...some of the most blatantly obvious ones come from tithing. The Bible says to give to God faithfully and you will never want for anything.
I haven't been good lately, but there was a time when I was very faithful in my giving, went about a year without really missing a tithe...and it was amazing. There was one time when we had very little money, but we tithed anyways...we had a bill to pay, but we put faith in God that he would provide.
The very next day, we received a check in the mail for something we weren't expecting...and it was just enough to cover the bill we owed. Coincedence? Some will think so, but I don't because it's happened too many times to me and other believers I know.
That is proof enough for me, yet I still fall short at times and my faith wanes when I'm running low on funds at the end of the month. And I can tell things get harder financially when I haven't tithed faithfully.
That is one of the more obvious ones to me that prove God's existence and the truth of the Bible. Other things that are more of a faith and "feel" type thing are harder to explain. Things like just trying to be like Jesus to anyone you come in contact with...it's amazing how they will notice a difference in you.
Praying to God to help you with a decision, and then feeling good about whatever you decide is another. We've done this many times and know that God has guided us in the right direction.
Just today in fact, was an example of that. I am trying to get Lasik surgery, but was nervous about it because of just the idea of my eyes being worked on, but also finances...we're trying to pay off some debt, and adding $1400 for Lasik to that seems dumb.
Anyways, I prayed to God for guidance in this...should I do it? Should I be patient and wait? Needless to say, since I've prayed about it, I've had some little feelings against doing it. And then suddenly today it hit me hard that maybe I should be patient and wait, and not use the money for this now, instead, pay off more debt. It's not like I NEED Lasik.
So today, after leaving 4 messages with the doctor to ask some more questions and getting no response, and then being declined by Aetna for one form of financing, I just felt like this was God pointing me in the right direction.
So I decided not to do it, and be patient with my money and stick to our goal of paying off debt. You know what? My heart and mind were suddenly at ease with my decision...and I feel great. The days preceeding this, I had decided to go ahead and do it, and something was always nagging in the back of my head.
Some of you will see this as just my sub-conscious telling me which way to go, but that's not the truth, to me. I feel God's help and the way he eases my mind. The Bible says to give everything to God, including petty decisions that come up in life.
I try to do that and I can feel how he takes care of me.
Mike
__________________ Hellboy: You're in love. You need a beer. Abe: I can't. My body is a temple. Hellboy: Well, now its an amusement park.
Originally posted by Floridacard I've stated how I feel.
Like you said, it's a matter of faith. You can't really explain why you think a certain way. You can try to give examples but that only goes so far for either side. No one can truly prove a gut feeling. There's nothing wrong with that. This should be a discussion on all of our views and not an effort to change everyones views to match our own. By the way, kudos to you for stated how you feel and why, but not telling us we need to think your way. While it's very frustrating to read some of your posts when I think your stubborn (as you probably feel about mine) you have posted them in a very civil manner, which is something I'm not very used to.
You've said exactly what I feel. I have never nor will I ever force my beliefs onto anyone else...if someone asks me about them I will gladly give what answers I can.
I also have no problem debating my beliefs and hearing the other side of the debate if people are willing to do so in a somewhat civil manner (or at least at the start anyway). What I do not appreciate is when someone insults me based on my beliefs refering to me as an infidel, idiot, etc. does absolutely nothing to the debate and it simply makes them just look like an ass.
__________________ Hellboy: You're in love. You need a beer. Abe: I can't. My body is a temple. Hellboy: Well, now its an amusement park.
Last edited by Evil Ash; July 15th, 2003 at 11:08 PM.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain Ok, it has been stated by several Christians on this board, that God's existence is provable. Well I want to hear the proof.
The proof must be held to the standards of science, not anecdotal evidence or evidence that isn't falsifiable. I want to be able to see the evidence, and be able to come to the same conclusion.
Reggie White said that God told him to come to Green Bay to win a Super Bowl. I snickered at the time thinking he was only coming to Green Bay for the money. The Super Bowl ring on Reggie's finger convinced me he was right about God.
I grew up Catholic because my parents made me. I still believe in God, but as I grew older I came to dislike the Catholic church and some of their actions. These sexual assualts by priests and bishops in the Catholic church are just one example of why I dislike the church itself but not God. To me, whether you believe in God or not, everyone should just do their best to respect others and give others a helping hand when needed. I don't always find that easy to do at times, but it's still the humane thing to do whether we believe in God or not.
I worship God, you worship Bidwill. That's your choice. I haven't even looked at this part of the message board in over a month because I've been busy lately. I haven't had time to post on any Cardinal or Packer message boards the last month. You're pretty paranoid if you think I'm stalking you. I seen a thread that sounded interesting and responded. I wasn't even responding to your post.
Originally posted by KingofCards
If I burn in hell because of it, I'll just say, been there done that. I don't think accepting God should have anything to do with heaven.
So I believe in me, my family, my friends. I might be selfish, but I deserve it. The one thing I want to do in my life, if is prove to other young Cancer patients that it is not a death sentence. And know I would never discount God, to them, in any way.
So you got something there Mike. You still question my belief system?
Thanks for sharing...appreciate it.
However, just a side note...if I were you, or anyone else, I'd make DAMN sure I absolutely believe what I do...because burning in hell for an eternity may not sound bad now, but if I would end up there, it aint going to be fun.
It scares the living crap out of me if I think about it...
Originally posted by Evil Ash Sheesh, I'm gone from this board one day and all heck breaks loose!!
Thanks I do appreciate the compliments!
For the past 6 years, I have studied and have done great deal of research with religion. I'm not talking about just in a classroom (such as those of ASU) but more of a grander scale. What I mean by that is I not only just did research, I also visited their places of worship and asked them questions about their religion and their beliefs (something I strongly recommend doing for anyone...it probably won't change your belief structure but it does give you a great deal of knowledge as to how people from that backround react to certain situations and why they believe the way they believe)
I will agree with this sentiment to a certain extent. During this particular time frame people from that part of the world (specifically Jewish and Arab countries) were pretty unskilled as it came to keeping time records (for a variety of reasons). For example, many biblical scholars now believe that Jesus was born around 6 A.D. and not 0 A.D.! However they were not that bad...although what I gave was more a centeralised date for john's writing of Revelation (96 A.D.), the majority of dates are only argued at most is 10 years in either direction! That still leaves a large gap in the timeframe between Nero's death and John's writing of Revelations.
It seems as though the person who created the argument of NERO being the beast is probably the same person who made that timeframe argument...just so that they could make their point!
Which one...There were 6 new emporers of Rome during sice Nero and until the entire argued point as to when John wrote Revelations:
Galba (68 A.D.)
Vespasian (69-73 A.D.)
Titus (73-81 A.D.)
Domitian (81-96 A.D.)
Nerva (96-98 A.D.)
or Trajan (98-117 A.D.)
I've read several really good intrepretations, and the one that struck me tho most went like this: Revelations is making a general point. Christians need to be careful of worshipping a secular leader. Nero was used more as an example than anything else basically in this view of it.
Every other nonliteral intrepretation I found equated Nero to 666 or Neron (the other way to spell his name) as 616.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Evil Ash All though what was said by EndZone does sound ludicrous...he's right. Believe it or not the current theory of evolution has been mathematically proven impossible!! Some of the most prominent mathematicians in history have found out that the theory of evolution developed by Charles Darwin would take times as long as it has been proven that the Earth has existed.
Thus, many scientists have either come to the concept that there either is a creator or they are creating a new theory on evolution!!
I have to explain this every time this topic is brought up....
I could care less what the mechanism for evolution was. I'm interested in mainly fossil evidence, geologic evidence, and stratigraphy of fossil evidence.
The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, and creationist basically have to argue against all branches of science to prove their points.
Have you ever handled hominid fossil remains? That alone proved evolution to me.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
I posted this before. There is a great book by an athiest turned Christian who investigated Christianity, the Bible, pretty much everything. Its call "A Case for Christ" and it pretty much addresses every topic we have talked about here. If you don't want to buy it I would most likely be able to get a copy for you....I might even buy it for you. PM me if you like.
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A single FAN is worth a hundred SPECTATORS! Go All Out! Fair-Weather Fans Suck!
It seems as though the person who created the argument of NERO being the beast is probably the same person who made that timeframe argument...just so that they could make their point!
No I would say this is inaccurate. This argument has been around some time, and not just one person came to this conclusion.
According to one of the sources I found, there is also archeological evidence which shows that Nero was refered to as 666 in other works.
Think about it. At that point in time, Nero was by far the worst persecutor of Christians, and no smart Christian would have openly condemned him.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by EndZone I posted this before. There is a great book by an athiest turned Christian who investigated Christianity, the Bible, pretty much everything. Its call "A Case for Christ" and it pretty much addresses every topic we have talked about here. If you don't want to buy it I would most likely be able to get a copy for you....I might even buy it for you. PM me if you like.
Is it available at a local library (maybe even Hayden at ASU)?
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain I have to explain this every time this topic is brought up....
I could care less what the mechanism for evolution was. I'm interested in mainly fossil evidence, geologic evidence, and stratigraphy of fossil evidence.
The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, and creationist basically have to argue against all branches of science to prove their points.
Have you ever handled hominid fossil remains? That alone proved evolution to me.
So I will quote a book I am reading now.
David M. Raup, the curator of the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago said:
"We are now about one hundred and twenty years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species, but the situation hasn't changed much... We have even fewer examples of evolutionary trnasition then we had in Darwin's time"
The author goes on to state.
What the fossil record does show is that in rocks dated back some five hundred and seventy million years, there is a sudden appearance of nearly all the animal phyla, and they appear fully formed, "Without a trace of the evolutionary ancestorys that Darwinists require" It's a phemonenon that points more readily toward a Creator than Darwinism.
__________________
A single FAN is worth a hundred SPECTATORS! Go All Out! Fair-Weather Fans Suck!
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