SirStefan32

Why would people chose to be Christians? There is no persecution in the United States, but around the world, thousands and thousands of Christians are getting slaughtered every day. Yet we don't claim that Christianity is "biological."

Being a Christian is not logical, intelligent, nor rational.
(According to the worldly standard.)

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man

KingofCards

That is the most intelligent statement you have made on this forum.





Sorry Stefan. You left yourself open for that one.

FischerKing

That's the point isn't it? That stems directly to my previous post - it is unreasonable and illogical. What do you expect when people are not taught logic and sound reasoning? That they assimilate it and pick it up through osmosis? Of course not - while we are all born with some innate ability to use logic and reason it doesn't mean that we always exercise it. Particularly if we have it ground into us from scholarship that we all have our own truth, that everything is relative. Those are agents that are not based in logic at all - but if that's all that is being taught - then society will build their worldview based on those faulty conclusions and then reason from them that they are logical. Well of course they are logical - if they fit that particular worldview. But if the worldview is faulty then the logic applied to it and the conclusions drawn from it are just as faulty as it's foundation and it cannot be anything but.

People make fallacious arguments all the time. They make nonsensical statements all the time. The first Law of Logic is the Law of Non-Contradiction (LNC). However, there are entire religions based upon it and people are more apt to suspend sound logic and reason in order to follow them. Talk about blind faith - that's doubly blind.

People choose to be outcasts for different reasons and by different means. I didn't like conformity when I was growing up and going to school so I did things that would set me apart from the norm. Did I have a rough time as a result of it - sure. But it wasn't for the sake persecution that I did it for - it was for the principle and conviction of it. That was the motivating factor. I didn't do it because I enjoyed the fights, name calling, etc. Those were by-products born from my actions. But if I was to succumb to the peer pressure, etc. and change just based on that alone - then who's the loser? I changed later as I grew more knowledgeable about certain things - but it was me who changed - not someone's will being forced upon me that caused the change.

Do homosexuals enjoy being called names or beat up or any other terrible and disgraceful thing that happens to them? Of course not - they are human like everyone else and so that's not the real question. The question is do they feel strong enough about their choice and their conviction of their lifestyle that they are willing to put up with what is doled out to them by people who can be very callous? Some of them leave the lifestyle and some don't. Do they do it because they eventually bow to peer pressure or do they do it because they come to a certain understanding and see things differently and realize it no longer holds to their worldview?

I can't answer that question - that's something that you'll have to ask each individual who has choosen to leave that lifestyle behind - why did they leave? What was their reason?

Shawn

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Strong Bad

What words have I twisted? You say I am playing semantical games. Please show me one post where I have twisted your words. What I have used are the words you and science use to try and promote the idea that homosexuality has been proven to be biologcal instead of behavioral. Science has no proof of this at all. Science uses loosely worded explanations with vague meanings to try and get the general public to believe they have cold hard facts. If you read closely what is written it is very evident the word games science uses.

What does your justice degree studies tell about criminals and their thinking when it comes to their criminal actions. I am not saying that homosexual behavior is a criminal act. I am just using an example of people who practice behavior that they know will most likely cause them grief. Murders, theives, rapists, date rapists, flashers, drug dealers, speeders, litter bugs, no insurance drivers and many more criminals know the possible consequences of their actions -- why do they choose to behave in usch a manner?

Why do these people behave the way they do?

Because they think they can avoid the consequences, making their choice of behavior worth the risk. In other words, they think of themselves before they think of the consequences.

To quote you the actions of these criminals are ...


I would apologize ahead of time if you believe that I am twisting your words, but since I am not twisting anyone's words I wont.

Strong Bad

Is this a rhetorical question? Regardless, the answer is easy. If some former homosexuals claim that their acts of homosexuality was their choice it leaves the entire, scientifically unproven theory of homosexuality being biological on very weak ground ... to say the least.

Some of these former homosexuals even admit that while they were practicing homosexuality, they rationalized their actions as being their nature and biological.


I am not saying that adults do not have the right in this country to have sexual relations with a member of the same sex. I am not even saying that homosexuality is immoral. All I am saying is that it is science that has the burden of proof to discover homosexuality being biological and not from freedom of choice. I am also saying that science has a theory that says homosexuality is biological, but has no proof.

Boy oh boy ... that sounds waaaaaaaaaay too similar to another discussion.

Krangthebrain

Yeah it does sound like another argument that we had. And I will admit that Science has not proven it is biological. Happy?

But I will say that you can't say there is no evidence. There is, but it isn't totally conclusive. Just like Mike saying he believed in demonic possesion. In his mind, there is evidence of it, but it isn't totally conclusive evidence, in which all of us could take it as fact.

I think that it is biological, there is SOME evidence, but not conclusive enough to make it FACT. The evidence can't fully stand scientific scrutiny and a great deal of research needs to be done.

I believe it, but you don't have to at this point. I don't want to come off as the board opinion Nazi. We have differing opinions, that are equally valid at this point in time, and we'll leave it at that.

Another thing I just thought of after rereading your previous post. Just because supposed former homosexuals say that it is a choice, doesn't put the biology theory on "very weak ground". I trust anecdotal evidence from others very little, as it is the weakest evidence possible.

(I was joking when I said ass-u-me btw . I think that you take things a little too seriously at times, but I'm guilty of that too.)

__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

Krangthebrain

Not to nitpick, but it is apples and oranges. Nice analogy though, and I do understand what you mean.

__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

SirStefan32

Thank you.

You say that there is some evidence but it is not totally conclusive. I would say that there is not enough evidence to even justify using the word "conclusive." All they have is a couple of studies that suggest that homosexuality might be biological.

I strongly dissagree with you on this one. First of all, nobody has to put the biological theory on the weak ground. It is already as weak as it can be.

Now, I think that former homosexuals' testimony constitutes very strong evidence that homosexuality is a choice. To speak in legal terms, they are "expert witnesses." They know lot more about that issue than you and I combined.

Stefan

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man

Krangthebrain

You can say it's on weak ground if you want. That is an opinion, not a fact.

And scientifically speaking, anecdotal evidence is weak. That isn't arguable. Humans have agendas, and humans can lie for many different reasons (including religion). I would say, imo, that they have been brainwashed into believing that they choose to be that way. That's my opinion, you opinion differs. It can't be proven as fact, thus it is weak as well.

__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

SirStefan32

But don't you think that it is possible that some practicing homosexuals have been brain- washed into believing that they had no choice?

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man

Krangthebrain

By whom or what group? Give an example, and I could agree or disagree.

Every homosexual I know, say that they were attracted to men from day one (or when they actually realized sexual attractions).

Either way, we can debate this all day long, with nothing clear at the end of the day. I just like the evolution debate. Both sides have to have faith in whatever they believe. I have faith it is biologically based, you have faith it is psychologically based. At this time, scientific evidence is too flawed to be conclusive, so either way we can't say it is a fact either way.

__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

SirStefan32

By any pro- gay or anti- religious group.

90% of homos I know say that they made a choice.

You are right, there is not enough evidence, BUT, remember the burden of proof is on you guys.

You were talking about posting some studies suggesting that homosexuality is biological, so I am wondering when we're gonna see them?

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man

Krangthebrain

I didn't get to talk to my sister about using her login ID for EBSCO Host (an academic search engine which you have to pay to use at ASU).

When I do get it, I will post the Journal articles so we can all read them.

Hey the burden of proof isn't on me. I'm not gay. But I do understand, that since I believe that, it has to be proved first.

__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.

Strong Bad

I want to focus in on this statement. There is data that has been interpreted as being evidence of homosexuality being biological ... those who have done the interpretation of that data are biased (as is everyone). Those people who made that interpretation earn a living from getting their ideas funded. If they make the claim that they are on the right track it is more likely that their funding will continue, maybe even increase instead of decreasing or even stopping all together.

I am not saying that testing should stop. I am saying that the interpretation of the data is questionable.

Same with the other discussion we had.

Strong Bad

Yet your biggest point thus far has been stating the abuse homosexuals have gone through and asking why would they choose such abuse?