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Originally posted by Krangthebrain Not exactly sure, it deals with the four pillars of the Earth, which implies flat-ness.
Krang - this is the only thing that I find in the entire Bible that comes even close to what you were talking about. I think you may be using the wrong word "four".
I Samuel 2:8
"He raises the poor from the dust, He lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with nobles, and inherit a seat of honor; For the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and He set the world on them."
Emphasis mine.
From the context of this passage this in no way infers the Earth being flat. As a matter of fact, this is taken from a prayer offered by Hannah after she had went up to the temple and dedicated her son Eli to the Lord's service.
Also, being a prayer, pillars should not be taken literally. It's just a figure of speech and it would mean, in a sense, the power of God - ie the Earth is set upon and sustained by God's power and truth (pillars).
Christ used similar language when speaking to Peter.
Quote:
Matthew 16:13-18
Jesus went to the territory near the town of Caesarea Philippi, where he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" "Some say John the Baptist," they answered. "Others say Elijah, while others say Jeremiah or some other prophet." "What about you?" he asked them. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." "Good for you, Simon son of John!" answered Jesus. "For this truth did not come to you from any human being, but it was given to you directly by my Father in heaven. And so I tell you, Peter: you are a rock, and on this rock foundation I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it."
Here he calls Peter a rock and then says that upon this rock he will build his church. So is he building his church upon Peter? Is Peter the foundation? No, he's not because Paul says in I Corinthians 3:11 the following:
Quote:
For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid.
So the church is being built upon Christ - but what about Peter? When Christ called Peter the "rock" - the literal translation from Greek would be pebble. Christ called Peter a pebble or gravel. But then he says "upon this rock" he would build his church. But the church was built upon the foundation of Christ according to Paul so that would mean that the "rock" Christ spoke of in the second instance wasn't Peter at all - but the truth of Peter's confession - the Jesus was the Son of God. Upon that true revelation would the Church be built.
I'm sure that was all quite unnecessary - but I wanted to make a point regarding taking words out of context as well as taking passages out of context. Proper study leads itself to proper understanding. And a faulty starting point (ie. lack of knowledge, preconceived ideas, notions and opinions and improper hermeneutics) can lead to disaster and the twisting of scripture for ungodly purposes.
Shawn
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__________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
Originally posted by Krangthebrain No you are the one speculating that it is not natural. Obviously homosexuality has existed for at least 3 thousand years, and new scientific evidence points to it being biological. You choose to ignore that. Your position has NO evidence, except for belief.
Come on Krang, I don't believe you don't see at least two or three falacies in your argument. We don't have to speculate that it is NOT natural. As we already discussed, male and female reproductive organs were made for each other and belong to each other. That is natural. Homosexuals can not produce children (as I pointed out earlier, our good friend Jon, nor his partner have ever been pregnant) That is evidence.
Now the burden of proof is on you to show me some scientific evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that Homosexuality is biological.
There has not even been a study that would seriously suggest that that may be the case.
So, I have to say that it is your position that has no evidence, just belief.
Stefan
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
I'm having technical difficulties with my computer right now. My computer will not allow me to use any search engines right now.
I'm going to talk to my sister today (ugh I'm not very fond of my sister) and ask her for her login ID for EBSCO host, which is an academic Journal search engine. Once I get it, I will post the research done on the biology of homosexuality.
Good discussion guys!
I might come off as an asshole at times, but I really do like debating with others with different point of views. I strengthens my own resolve, and forces me to do more research!
Happy Fourth of July!
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by SirStefan32 Come on Krang, I don't believe you don't see at least two or three falacies in your argument. We don't have to speculate that it is NOT natural. As we already discussed, male and female reproductive organs were made for each other and belong to each other. That is natural. Homosexuals can not produce children (as I pointed out earlier, our good friend Jon, nor his partner have ever been pregnant) That is evidence.
Now the burden of proof is on you to show me some scientific evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that Homosexuality is biological.
There has not even been a study that would seriously suggest that that may be the case.
So, I have to say that it is your position that has no evidence, just belief.
Stefan
But don't you see the fallacy in your argument? Just because male and female genitalia belong to together, it doesn't necessarily make homosexuality "unnatural" but it could be "abnormal".
Being born with a tail is "abnormal" but not "unnatural"
And my position is based on some scientific data, which I will post when I'm able to. Where's your evidence, other than passages from the Bible?
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by FischerKing Krang - this is the only thing that I find in the entire Bible that comes even close to what you were talking about. I think you may be using the wrong word "four".
I Samuel 2:8
"He raises the poor from the dust, He lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with nobles, and inherit a seat of honor; For the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and He set the world on them."
Emphasis mine.
From the context of this passage this in no way infers the Earth being flat. As a matter of fact, this is taken from a prayer offered by Hannah after she had went up to the temple and dedicated her son Eli to the Lord's service.
Also, being a prayer, pillars should not be taken literally. It's just a figure of speech and it would mean, in a sense, the power of God - ie the Earth is set upon and sustained by God's power and truth (pillars).
Christ used similar language when speaking to Peter.
Here he calls Peter a rock and then says that upon this rock he will build his church. So is he building his church upon Peter? Is Peter the foundation? No, he's not because Paul says in I Corinthians 3:11 the following:
So the church is being built upon Christ - but what about Peter? When Christ called Peter the "rock" - the literal translation from Greek would be pebble. Christ called Peter a pebble or gravel. But then he says "upon this rock" he would build his church. But the church was built upon the foundation of Christ according to Paul so that would mean that the "rock" Christ spoke of in the second instance wasn't Peter at all - but the truth of Peter's confession - the Jesus was the Son of God. Upon that true revelation would the Church be built.
I'm sure that was all quite unnecessary - but I wanted to make a point regarding taking words out of context as well as taking passages out of context. Proper study leads itself to proper understanding. And a faulty starting point (ie. lack of knowledge, preconceived ideas, notions and opinions and improper hermeneutics) can lead to disaster and the twisting of scripture for ungodly purposes.
Shawn
So when is something taken as a figure of speech, and when is it taken literally?
That sounds like a contradiction to me. Fundamentalist say that everything in the Bible is literal, until it doesn't prove their case.
Ever heard of the principle of noncontradiction?
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
I don't believe I have even used any Bible passages in the homosexuality debate.
As I said, the burden of proof is on you to prove that it is natural/ biological, beyond reasonable doubt.
Any honest Scientist/ Anthropologist/ Geneticist will tell you that there is no evidence to prove that homosexuality is biological. Until 15 years ago, nobody would even suggest something like that.
So, you admit that it is abnormal?
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by Krangthebrain So when is something taken as a figure of speech, and when is it taken literally?
That's common sense. Bible use different literary devices just like any other book. Everything in the Bible is literal. You just have to have enough common sense and some basic knowledge of literature to recognize literary devices.
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by SirStefan32 I don't believe I have even used any Bible passages in the homosexuality debate.
As I said, the burden of proof is on you to prove that it is natural/ biological, beyond reasonable doubt.
Any honest Scientist/ Anthropologist/ Geneticist will tell you that there is no evidence to prove that homosexuality is biological. Until 15 years ago, nobody would even suggest something like that.
So, you admit that it is abnormal?
Oh I will totally admit it is an abnormality, but a common one.
And for you to say there is no evidence is bunk. Take the time to look it up, it's there Stefan. As I said in an earlier post, I'll post some info from EBSCO Host (ever used Ebsco? great for writing academic papers).
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by SirStefan32 That's common sense. Bible use different literary devices just like any other book. Everything in the Bible is literal. You just have to have enough common sense and some basic knowledge of literature to recognize literary devices.
Or it can be intrepreted as ancient man not understanding that the world is not flat.
That can easily be assumed, since most believed the world was flat until about 500 years ago. Are you going to debate that?
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain So when is something taken as a figure of speech, and when is it taken literally?
That sounds like a contradiction to me. Fundamentalist say that everything in the Bible is literal, until it doesn't prove their case.
Ever heard of the principle of noncontradiction?
Well - thank goodness I'm not a fundamentalist then - that's a relief.
The Bible is made up of the following Literary Genres:
1. Apocryphal
2. Letters or Epistles
3. Historical or Narrative
4. Poetry
5. Technical
6. Sermons
7. Treatise
Many differing literary forms are used to convey meaning in specific cultures, times, etc. One medium of communicating a truth may make a longer lasting impression than another - so that specific medium is chosen to convey a truth, therefore the many different literary devices used to teach that truth.
As far as a principle of noncontradiction - no, I haven't, since we are nit-picking about words . But what I have heard about is the following Laws (and I'll break is down so that it's easier for all to follow):
A. Self-Evident Propositions about Logic:
1. Law of Non-Contradiction (LNC) - (A is not non-A).
2. Law of Identity (LID) - (A is A)
3. Law of Excluded Middle (LEM) - (nothing between A and non-A)
4. Laws on Invalid Inference
B. Self-Sufficient Propositions about Knowledge
1. Something can be known
2. Opposites cannot both be true (LNC)
3. Everything cannot be false
Shawn
__________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
Originally posted by SirStefan32 That's common sense. Bible use different literary devices just like any other book. Everything in the Bible is literal. You just have to have enough common sense and some basic knowledge of literature to recognize literary devices.
Thank You. Like it is common sense that no Man can build a boat big enough to fit two of every animal on earth onto it and have them live for months together? Can you say literary device?
Krang, there is no hard evidence to prove that homosexuality is biological. The best you have is the siblings of gay people, especially their identical twins, are somewhat more likely than people without close gay relatives to themselves be gay.
Then there was a review that concluded that in some brain areas, homosexual men are more likely to have female-typical neuroanatomy than are heterosexual men.
Biologically disposed tendencies operate within an environmental context. This is Psych 101.
Storm proposed in the 80's that people develop same-sex erotic attachments if segregated by gender at the time their sex drive matures.
I believe that there are probably some genetic pre- dispositions, environment probably has something to do with it, childhood trauma's or other experiences.
The little studies that even make a suggestion that homosexuality is biological, are all based on circumstantial and/ or equivocal evidence.
Stefan
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by KingofCards Thank You. Like it is common sense that no Man can build a boat big enough to fit two of every animal on earth onto it and have them live for months together? Can you say literary device?
What literary device would that be King?
Careful examination of the biblical text and getting rid of misconseptions will prove that there indeed was Noah's arch, etc, but that's something to be discussed in another thread.
Stefan
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by SirStefan32 Krang, there is no hard evidence to prove that homosexuality is biological. The best you have is the siblings of gay people, especially their identical twins, are somewhat more likely than people without close gay relatives to themselves be gay.
Then there was a review that concluded that in some brain areas, homosexual men are more likely to have female-typical neuroanatomy than are heterosexual men.
Biologically disposed tendencies operate within an environmental context. This is Psych 101.
Storm proposed in the 80's that people develop same-sex erotic attachments if segregated by gender at the time their sex drive matures.
I believe that there are probably some genetic pre- dispositions, environment probably has something to do with it, childhood trauma's or other experiences.
The little studies that even make a suggestion that homosexuality is biological, are all based on circumstantial and/ or equivocal evidence.
Stefan
Let me post the data, then you can refute it. As I said, I can't at this moment, but I will once I get the Login ID and password for EBSCO Host.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
I'm not very fond of my sister) and ask her for her login ID for EBSCO host, which is an academic Journal search engine. Once I get it, I will post the research done on the biology of homosexuality.
