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Originally posted by Dback Jon How do you infer that gays refuse to take responsibility for their actions? What a crock. If anything, someone coming out is taking responsibilty for whom they are.
Why don't Christians take responsibility for their actions, instead of hiding behind 2000 year old pieces of paper?
Untill you admit that you CHOSE homosexuality, you will not be taking responsibility. You claim that it was biological, and there is absolutely no evidence that it is. It can not be biological because it is not natural. Have you ever been pregnant, Jon? I didn't think so.
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"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
I can't wait until Science proves that homosexuality is biologically based. Right wingers won't have a leg to stand on. Every gay person I know, will say that they didn't choose to be gay, and I would think you would agree with that Jon.
For me, homosexuality is wrong, but for others it is not. I don't choose to be heterosexual, it is my nature, as it is the nature of those born homosexual. That's how I see it, and I will defend others who are in need of defense.
You're gonna be waiting for a very long time. It will never be proven (beyond reasonable doubt) to be biological.
8 out of 10 gay people I know are honest enough to admit that they made a choice.
Stefan
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by SirStefan32 Untill you admit that you CHOSE homosexuality, you will not be taking responsibility. You claim that it was biological, and there is absolutely no evidence that it is. It can not be biological because it is not natural. Have you ever been pregnant, Jon? I didn't think so.
There is nothing to admit - accept that it is NATURAL for me. As Krang stated - it would not be natural for him, just as it would not be natural for me to pretend I was straight.
Have you ever been pregnant?
What gets me is you are trying to condemn me for what you call a choice, based on the religion and interpretation of that religion that you CHOOSE.
Originally posted by Dback Jon There is nothing to admit - accept that it is NATURAL for me. As Krang stated - it would not be natural for him, just as it would not be natural for me to pretend I was straight.
Have you ever been pregnant?
What gets me is you are trying to condemn me for what you call a choice, based on the religion and interpretation of that religion that you CHOOSE.
Nope, I have never been pregnant. When I am ready to have a family, my wife will be pregnant, and we will have kids, just the way God intended it. That's what I call "natural."
Homosexuality is not natural.
Yes, I chose Christianity, and I take full responsibility for it and everything else I do.
It would be nice if everybody would be that honest and admit that everything is a choice. (including Homosexuality)
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by andikrist ok - i still maintain that consenting adults have the right of free association. Freaking NAMBLA, pedophile priests, bad stepfathers - get a boot in the face from me.
You draw a line in one location, i draw a line a little farther - but i still draw a line...
I have not told you where I draw the line. All I have said is that the arguments that homosexuals have used for the past 30-40 years are the same arguments that NAMBLA is currently using to justify their preferences. So my question is why does one group (homosexuals) get use arguments the other group (NAMBLA) doesn't?
Regarding the future of American culture as it relates to consent of boys ... children can now divorce their parents and sue for independance. NAMBLA claims that if a boy and man both consent they should do whatever they want. I think it is disgusting, but looking back on the history of acceptance of homosexuality in this country can you honestily say that given the same amount time and forums homsexuals had the country's views on NAMBLA will not change to acceptance???
The only thing I can be thankful about is that by the time the country accepts NAMBLA I will be dead.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain No reasonable person believes that men with boys is ok.
But that's the key isn't it?
You're exactly right Krang - no reasonable person would believe that, tolerate that nor condone that.
But what's scary is that with the Pluralism and Relativism running rampant - being taught, etc. people are no longer reasonable - or at the very least they don't reason things out through logic.
Since people are now taught and believe that there are no Absolutes anymore - that what is reasonable for one person, or group, doesn't necessarily mean that it's reasonable for another person or group. People want tolerance unless it offends them. People want political correctness until it doesn't hold to their views.
But what makes one persons views or beliefs more or less valid than anothers if everything is just relative and there are no absolutes? Nothing does.
With more and more people holding to the relative worldview and preaching tolerance and political correctness at ever turn - then what they do within their own worldview is reasonable and logical - as long as it doesn't violate their belief system or framework. To those on the outside looking in - they take offense, but Strong Bad is correct in saying that it's just a matter of time until it becomes an acceptable practice.
Did you know that there were some ancient cultures where within that culture is was perfectly acceptable to sacrfice their children. In other ancient cultures it was acceptable to eat their children. How did these cultures progress to the point of such reprehensible behaviour? Or is it reprehensible? To a person who is a relativist - it's not - or at least it can't be, because then that would be forcing their worldview upon someone else which violates what they stand for to begin with. In other words, they have to suspend logic, ethics, morals and even reasonability to maintain their philosophy.
People harp on Christians because they hold to Absolutes - like absolute truth. They cry foul because they say that we are intolerant due to being exclusive. Truth - any truth that is true - is intolerant to a certain degree. All truth is exclusive - that's one of it's attributes. If it wasn't it would violate logic. But they don't like truth that is exclusive and intolerant because it doesn't fit their worldview of tolerance and political correctness.
So we find ourselves creeping ever so slowly to those things that in recent memory and history were not tolerated by a society but have now become mainstream. And the people who continue to hold to those beliefs are considered "out of step with reality and society as a whole". They've now become the "norm" and those who don't "toe the line" are labled intolerant or bigots or whatever.
Just my quarter,
Shawn
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Last edited by FischerKing; July 3rd, 2003 at 01:08 PM.
Originally posted by FischerKing But that's the key isn't it?
You're exactly right Krang - no reasonable person would believe that, tolerate that nor condone that.
But what's scary is that with the Pluralism and Relativism running rampant - being taught, etc. people are no longer reasonable - or at the very least they don't reason things out through logic.
Since people are now taught and believe that there are no Absolutes anymore - that what is reasonable for one person, or group, doesn't necessarily mean that it's reasonable for another person or group. People want tolerance unless it offends them. People want political correctness until it doesn't hold to their views.
But what makes one persons views or beliefs more or less valid than anothers if everything is just relative and there are no absolutes? Nothing does.
With more and more people holding to the relative worldview and preaching tolerance and political correctness at ever turn - then what they do within their own worldview is reasonable and logical - as long as it doesn't violate their belief system or framework. To those on the outside looking in - they take offense, but Strong Bad is correct in saying that it's just a matter of time until it becomes an acceptable practice.
Did you know that there were some ancient cultures where within that culture is was perfectly acceptable to sacrfice their children. In other ancient cultures it was acceptable to eat their children. How did these cultures progress to the point of such reprehensible behaviour? Or is it reprehensible? To a person who is a relativist - it's not - or at least it can't be, because then that would be forcing their worldview upon someone else which violates what they stand for to begin with. In other words, they have to suspend logic, ethics, morals and even reasonability to maintain their philosophy.
People harp on Christians because they hold to Absolutes - like absolute truth. They cry foul because they say that we are intolerant due to being exclusive. Truth - any truth that is true - is intolerant to a certain degree. All truth is exclusive - that's one of it's attributes. If it wasn't it would violate logic. But they don't like truth that is exclusive and intolerant because it doesn't fit their worldview of tolerance and political correctness.
So we find ourselves creeping ever so slowly to those things that in recent memory and history were not tolerated by a society but have now become mainstream. And the people who continue to hold to those beliefs are considered "out of step with reality and society as a whole". They've now become the "norm" and those who don't "toe the line" are labled intolerant or bigots or whatever.
Just my quarter,
Shawn
A quarter? I'd say that's worth $200 right there.
You are exactly right Shawn!
*puts the laptop on the table, and gives a standing ovation.*
Thank you Shawn, you said everything in just a few paragraphs.
Stefan
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by FischerKing But that's the key isn't it?
You're exactly right Krang - no reasonable person would believe that, tolerate that nor condone that.
But what's scary is that with the Pluralism and Relativism running rampant - being taught, etc. people are no longer reasonable - or at the very least they don't reason things out through logic.
Since people are now taught and believe that there are no Absolutes anymore - that what is reasonable for one person, or group, doesn't necessarily mean that it's reasonable for another person or group. People want tolerance unless it offends them. People want political correctness until it doesn't hold to their views.
But what makes one persons views or beliefs more or less valid than anothers if everything is just relative and there are no absolutes? Nothing does.
With more and more people holding to the relative worldview and preaching tolerance and political correctness at ever turn - then what they do within their own worldview is reasonable and logical - as long as it doesn't violate their belief system or framework. To those on the outside looking in - they take offense, but Strong Bad is correct in saying that it's just a matter of time until it becomes an acceptable practice.
Did you know that there were some ancient cultures where within that culture is was perfectly acceptable to sacrfice their children. In other ancient cultures it was acceptable to eat their children. How did these cultures progress to the point of such reprehensible behaviour? Or is it reprehensible? To a person who is a relativist - it's not - or at least it can't be, because then that would be forcing their worldview upon someone else which violates what they stand for to begin with. In other words, they have to suspend logic, ethics, morals and even reasonability to maintain their philosophy.
People harp on Christians because they hold to Absolutes - like absolute truth. They cry foul because they say that we are intolerant due to being exclusive. Truth - any truth that is true - is intolerant to a certain degree. All truth is exclusive - that's one of it's attributes. If it wasn't it would violate logic. But they don't like truth that is exclusive and intolerant because it doesn't fit their worldview of tolerance and political correctness.
So we find ourselves creeping ever so slowly to those things that in recent memory and history were not tolerated by a society but have now become mainstream. And the people who continue to hold to those beliefs are considered "out of step with reality and society as a whole". They've now become the "norm" and those who don't "toe the line" are labled intolerant or bigots or whatever.
Just my quarter,
Shawn
Nice post, but I don't fully agree.
It IS an absolute in our society. It is unacceptable for men to sleep with boys. It will never be made legal, because it is pedophilia. Ask 99% of all people and they will tell you that.
The Justice System (which is what I study) is now moving towards locking up pedophiles (who have harmed children) for the rest of their lives. Washington State already has a program that makes it literally impossible for pedophiles to get out.
A pedophile serves his regular prison sentence, then moves to a mental institution. To get out of the mental institution, the pedophile has to prove that they are no longer attracted to children. A test is done to gauge arousal to naked pictures of children, and it is 100% accurate. The Supreme Court upheld (the ACLU contested it) that it is not cruel and unusual punishment.
How would a society, that is moving more towards NOT accepting pedophiles, make it legal for a man to sleep with a boy? NOT REASONABLE. And this arguement is NOT REASONABLE and seems to be fueled more by hatred/intolerance of gays than anything else.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain Nice post, but I don't fully agree.
It IS an absolute in our society. It is unacceptable for men to sleep with boys. It will never be made legal, because it is pedophilia. Ask 99% of all people and they will tell you that.
50 years ago, people thought homosexuality would not be legal.
(Heck, even today people in Serbia will slit your troat if you are homosexual) I don't condone that type of behavior, but in many countries that is normal.
Once you depart from the absolute, (natural sexual relationship is that between a man and a woman) you start sliding down the slippery slope.
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
Originally posted by SirStefan32 It would be nice if everybody would be that honest and admit that everything is a choice. (including Homosexuality)
It's not a choice, it's how they are born. Is being straight a choice you made? As a child did you ask yourself "will I like boys or girls, I'd better make a decision?" If people chose to be gay why would you have people committing suicide because they are gay? It's not like there is a gay button that people can turn on and off.
Did you know that there are physiological differences between men and womens brains? Did you know that heterosexual and homosexual people's brains work differently? It's all about how we're wired in the noggin.
People don't choose to be gay, that's how nature made them.
Or, if you prefer, that's how God made them.
__________________
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Tim Minnick 9/12/1972-3/4/2007
You'll be missed.
Originally posted by Floridacard It's not a choice, it's how they are born. Is being straight a choice you made? As a child did you ask yourself "will I like boys or girls, I'd better make a decision?" If people chose to be gay why would you have people committing suicide because they are gay? It's not like there is a gay button that people can turn on and off.
Did you know that there are physiological differences between men and womens brains? Did you know that heterosexual and homosexual people's brains work differently? It's all about how we're wired in the noggin.
People don't choose to be gay, that's how nature made them.
Originally posted by SirStefan32 50 years ago, people thought homosexuality would not be legal.
(Heck, even today people in Serbia will slit your troat if you are homosexual) I don't condone that type of behavior, but in many countries that is normal.
Once you depart from the absolute, (natural sexual relationship is that between a man and a woman) you start sliding down the slippery slope.
But Stefan, all it took was REASONABLE people, who agreed that sex between two adults of the same gender was ok.
You are going to tell me that ANY of us will ever find it reasonable for a boy and a man to have sex?
You want to talk about absolutes, well.....that's absolute bullshit.
You are letting your religion convictions overcome your reason.
And your point of homosexuals being killed in Yugoslavia, just proves my point. That's unreasonable, and it goes to show just how backwards and wrong Eastern Europeans can be on that subject.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
