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Men with older brothers more likely to be gay
By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Having several older brothers increases the likelihood of a man being gay, a finding researchers say adds weight to the idea that there is a biological basis for sexual orientation.
"It's likely to be a prenatal effect," said Anthony F. Bogaert of Brock University in St. Catharines, Canada, "This and other studies suggest that there is probably a biological basis for" homosexuality.
S. Marc Breedlove of Michigan State University said the finding "absolutely" confirms a physical basis.
"Anybody's first guess would have been that the older brothers were having an effect socially, but this data doesn't support that," Breedlove said in a telephone interview.
The only link between the brothers is the mother and so the effect has to be through the mother, especially since stepbrothers didn't have the effect, said Breedlove, who was not part of the research.
Bogaert studied four groups of Canadian men, a total of 944 people, analyzing the number of brothers and sisters each had, whether or not they lived with those siblings and whether the siblings were related by blood or adopted.
He reports in a paper appearing in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that having several biological older brothers increased the chance of a man being gay.
It's an effect that can be detected with one older brother and becomes stronger with three or four or more, Bogaert said in a telephone interview.
But, he added, this needs to be looked at in context of the overall rate of homosexuality in men, which he suggested is about 3 percent. With several older brothers the rate may increase from 3 percent to 5 percent, he said, but that still means 95 percent of men with several older brothers are heterosexual.
The effect of birth order on male homosexuality has been reported previously but Bogaert's work is the first designed to rule out social or environmental effects.
Bogaert said he concluded the effect was biological by comparing men with biological brothers to those with brothers to whom they were not biologically related.
The increase in the likelihood of being gay was seen only in those whose brothers had the same mothers, whether they were raised together or not, he said.
Men raised with several older step- or adopted brothers do not have an increased chance of being gay.
"So what that means is that the environment a person is raised in really makes not much difference," he said.
What makes a difference, he said, is having older brothers who shared the same womb and gestational experience, suggesting the difference is because of "some sort of prenatal factor."
One possibility, he suggests, is a maternal immune response to succeeding male fetuses. The mother may react to a male fetus as foreign but not to a female fetus because the mother is also female.
It might be like the maternal immune response that can occur when a mother has Rh-negative blood but her fetus has Rh-positive blood. Without treatment, the mother can develop antibodies that may attack the fetus during future pregnancies.
Whether that's what is happening remains to be seen, but it is a provocative hypothesis, said a commentary by Breedlove, David A. Puts and Cynthia L. Jordan, all of Michigan State.
The research was funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada.
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__________________
Paul Calvisi: How about you, Gerald Hayes. If you had to call a travel agent and go to one place in the world, where would it be?
Men with older brothers more likely to be gay
By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Having several older brothers increases the likelihood of a man being gay, a finding researchers say adds weight to the idea that there is a biological basis for sexual orientation.
"It's likely to be a prenatal effect," said Anthony F. Bogaert of Brock University in St. Catharines, Canada, "This and other studies suggest that there is probably a biological basis for" homosexuality.
S. Marc Breedlove of Michigan State University said the finding "absolutely" confirms a physical basis.
"Anybody's first guess would have been that the older brothers were having an effect socially, but this data doesn't support that," Breedlove said in a telephone interview.
The only link between the brothers is the mother and so the effect has to be through the mother, especially since stepbrothers didn't have the effect, said Breedlove, who was not part of the research.
Bogaert studied four groups of Canadian men, a total of 944 people, analyzing the number of brothers and sisters each had, whether or not they lived with those siblings and whether the siblings were related by blood or adopted.
He reports in a paper appearing in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that having several biological older brothers increased the chance of a man being gay.
It's an effect that can be detected with one older brother and becomes stronger with three or four or more, Bogaert said in a telephone interview.
But, he added, this needs to be looked at in context of the overall rate of homosexuality in men, which he suggested is about 3 percent. With several older brothers the rate may increase from 3 percent to 5 percent, he said, but that still means 95 percent of men with several older brothers are heterosexual.
The effect of birth order on male homosexuality has been reported previously but Bogaert's work is the first designed to rule out social or environmental effects.
Bogaert said he concluded the effect was biological by comparing men with biological brothers to those with brothers to whom they were not biologically related.
The increase in the likelihood of being gay was seen only in those whose brothers had the same mothers, whether they were raised together or not, he said.
Men raised with several older step- or adopted brothers do not have an increased chance of being gay.
"So what that means is that the environment a person is raised in really makes not much difference," he said.
What makes a difference, he said, is having older brothers who shared the same womb and gestational experience, suggesting the difference is because of "some sort of prenatal factor."
One possibility, he suggests, is a maternal immune response to succeeding male fetuses. The mother may react to a male fetus as foreign but not to a female fetus because the mother is also female.
It might be like the maternal immune response that can occur when a mother has Rh-negative blood but her fetus has Rh-positive blood. Without treatment, the mother can develop antibodies that may attack the fetus during future pregnancies.
Whether that's what is happening remains to be seen, but it is a provocative hypothesis, said a commentary by Breedlove, David A. Puts and Cynthia L. Jordan, all of Michigan State.
The research was funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada.
I think if I scored a 3-5% on anything it would be considered failure. Interesting.
__________________
The greatest lies are told before a marriage, after a hunt and during an election - Count Bismark
I think if I scored a 3-5% on anything it would be considered failure. Interesting.
Wow, Was this comment really necessary? I'm rarely offended but this one is over the line.
So by your logic anybody who "chooses" to do something that only 3% of the population partakes in are "failures". By that standard we are all failures.
Wow, Was this comment really necessary? I'm rarely offended but this one is over the line.
So by your logic anybody who "chooses" to do something that only 3% of the population partakes in are "failures". By that standard we are all failures.
No. But, if you are doing a study and can only come up with 3%, maybe 5%, hardly justifies the point IMO. What is the margin for error in this study...3-5%??? I would consider the study a failure.
__________________
The greatest lies are told before a marriage, after a hunt and during an election - Count Bismark
No. But, if you are doing a study and can only come up with 3%, maybe 5%, hardly justifies the point IMO. What is the margin for error in this study...3-5%??? I would consider the study a failure.
You are confused...that is the rate of homosexuality among men nationally. 3%.
His findings show that it is closer to 5% with men having multiple older brothers.
Therefore, it is nearly twice as likely amongst that group to be homosexual, and anything that results come in close to double the national average is a telling statistic.
But in the end, you are still talking about a very small portion of society.
__________________
I'm the anti-TNT. I don't do drama.
You are confused...that is the rate of homosexuality among men nationally. 3%.
His findings show that it is closer to 5% with men having multiple older brothers.
Therefore, it is nearly twice as likely amongst that group to be homosexual, and anything that results come in close to double the national average is a telling statistic.
But in the end, you are still talking about a very small portion of society.
I think the 10% is gay or bisexual. I remember one of the producers on the Real World being asked why there's a gay or bisexual person on each season, do they cast it that way on purpose. Her answer was something like 1 in 7 people in America are gay or bisexual so having 1 out of 7 on the Real World each season is actually consistent with what you'd expect.
That puts it about 4.3 million gay/lesbian/bisexual. 1.5 percent of the population (I'm sure there's a lot of underreporting on this issue though).
I'd say 3% of the total population is in line with what I've found googling around.
That link is interesting as to the number of each religion, different lifestyles (vegetarian, etc.) and others.
Quote:
Describing those numbers from that link:
5. 1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These numbers are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS), published in the book The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994), by Laumann, Gagnon, Michael and Michaels.
This percentage is significantly higher than estimates of the Canadian homosexual population obtained by the Canadian Community Health Survey, which was part of a comprehensive survey of more than 135,000 Canadians conducted between January and December 2003. This 2003 Canadian survey, which included questions about a wide range of health issues, found that 1.3% of Canadian men aged 18 to 59 were homosexual, and 0.7% of Canadian women were. On average, about 1% of the Canadian population was found to be homosexual. (See: "Canadian Community Health Survey", 15 July 2004, on the official Canadian government website "Statistics Canada" http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/.../d040615b.htm). Researchers believe that the difference between these American (1.5%) and Canadian (1%) estimates of the homosexual population are due not to actual demographic differences between the populations of the two countries, but are due to differences between the methodologies of the studies and the sources of the information. The American figure (1.5%) comes from an independent study designed specifically to investigate sexual questions of behavior. The Canadian study was more general in its scope, and confidentially asked people about their sexual orientation. The sample size for the U.S. study (Laumann, et al) was 3,432 American men and women (far less than the sample size of 135,000 people in the Canadian study).
Referring to the Laumann study, the gay rights coalition stated that in the United States 2.8% of males age 18 or older, and 1.4% of females age 18 or older are homosexual, gay, lesbian or bisexual. We have applied their figures to the 2003 U.S. population (284,800,000 total population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau). 0.9% of women identify themselves as lesbians (excluding bisexuals), which equates to 0.32% of total U.S. population being lesbians. 2 percent of men identify themselves as gay (excluding bisexuals), which equates to 0.7% of total U.S. population being gay men. Source: National study published in Laumann, et al., The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994), cited in Amicus Curiae in support of petitioners. Lawrence and Garner v. State of Texas, No. 02-102 (U.S. March 26, 2003), pg. 16. This friend of the court brief was filed by a coalition of leading pro-GLBT activist groups, including: Human Rights Campaign, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG), National Center for Lesbian Rights, Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders (GLAAD), Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Pride At Work AFL-CIO, People For the American Way Foundation, Anti-Defamation League, Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, Soulforce, Stonewall Law Association of Greater Houston, and others. See also: Peter Sprigg, 28 January 2004, "Homosexual Groups Back Off From '10 Percent' Myth", InFocus (Family Research Council), Issue No. 260; URL: http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF04A01. From Sprigg:
A coalition of leading pro-homosexual activist groups has now admitted in a legal brief that only "2.8 percent of the male, and 1.4 percent of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual."... in an amicus curiae (or "friend of the court") brief filed with the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Lawrence v. Texas. In the case, which was decided in June of 2003, homosexual activists successfully sought to have a Texas law barring homosexual sodomy declared unconstitutional. The brief was filed by a coalition of 31 pro-homosexual activist groups, including some of the leading national organizations like the Human Rights Campaign; the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force; Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG); the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD); and the People for the American Way Foundation. The unusually candid statement about the relatively low number of homosexuals in the population appeared on page 16 of the brief. The text contains the assertion, "There are approximately six million openly gay men and women in the United States, and 450,000 gay men and lesbians in Texas." After the national figure there appears a footnote, number 42 in the brief. The actual footnote at the bottom of the page reads as follows (in its entirety): "The most widely accepted study of sexual practices in the United States is the National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS). The NHSLS found that 2.8 percent of the male, and 1.4 percent of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. See Laumann, et al., The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994)..." Unfortunately, despite their candor about the small percentage of the population that is homosexual, the authors of the brief still managed to overestimate the actual number of "openly gay men and women" by more than a third. That's because the figures of "4 million openly gay men and 2 million women who identify as lesbian" were apparently arrived at by multiplying the 2.8 percent and 1.4 percent figures by the total number of males and females in the U.S. population. Yet it hardly seems reasonable to count any of the 60 million Americans who are fourteen years old or younger (and particularly the 40 million who are nine or younger) as "openly gay men and women." If one applies the percentage figures from the NHSLS instead to only the population of men and women 18 years old or more, one arrives at an estimate that perhaps 4.3 million Americans (2.8 million men and 1.5 million women) identify themselves as homosexual or bisexual. It is important as well to note that the "bisexual" component in that is fairly high. In fact, the percentage of the population that identifies exclusively as homosexual (not bisexual) is only 2 percent for men and 0.9 percent for women, or about 2 million men and slightly less than a million women. And even an exclusive homosexual self-identification is not always matched by similarly exclusive behavior. The NHSLS found that only 0.9 percent of men and 0.4 percent of women reported having only same-sex sexual partners since age 18, a figure that would represent a total of only about 1.4 million Americans (men and women combined). In fact, the book on the NHSLS that was cited in the homosexual groups' brief refers as well to "the myth of 10 percent," noting that it was probably drawn from part of the research of Alfred Kinsey. However, even Kinsey actually concluded that only "4 percent of the white males are exclusively homosexual throughout their lives." And the book by Laumann et al. notes that Kinsey used research methods that "would all tend to bias Kinsey's results toward higher estimates of homosexuality (and other rarer sexual practices) than those he would have obtained using probability sampling." [Two key reasons: Kinsey's research was conducted exclusively with males, which has a higher rates of homosexuality and bisexuality, and Kinsey's research was conducted predominantly within prison populations.] The Laumann book also mentions in a footnote that "Bruce Voeller (1990) claims to have originated the 10 percent estimate as part of the modern gay rights movement's campaign in the late 1970s to convince politicians and the public that 'We [gays and lesbians] Are Everywhere.' At the time, Voeller was the chair of the National Gay Task Force"--forerunner to one of the groups represented by the recent brief.
They are using an older study to extrapolate current demographics, but the numbers are still in line with the recent Canadian study. I'd say 3% is probably likely.
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I'm the anti-TNT. I don't do drama.
Last edited by Donald; June 26th, 2006 at 01:06 PM.
That puts it about 4.3 million gay/lesbian/bisexual. 1.5 percent of the population (I'm sure there's a lot of underreporting on this issue though).
I'd say 3% of the total population is in line with what I've found googling around.
That link is interesting as to the number of each religion, different lifestyles (vegetarian, etc.) .
apparently there are many people that believe they are are more than one religion... If you take out the single religions, add them to the agnostics and the atheists you get a total of 278.56%, remove the blanket Christian, which many other religions may fall under and it is still 202%...
No. But, if you are doing a study and can only come up with 3%, maybe 5%, hardly justifies the point IMO. What is the margin for error in this study...3-5%??? I would consider the study a failure.
Exactly. A 2% increase is hardly conclusive. Most studies have a margin of error higher than 2%. I don't doubt that it is possible, but 2% seems trivial.
Exactly. A 2% increase is hardly conclusive. Most studies have a margin of error higher than 2%. I don't doubt that it is possible, but 2% seems trivial.
It is not 2% - it works out to a 40% increase in chance - that is a big difference.
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