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....because they are putting off retooling their lines for as long as they can. Small cars by themselves are not a safety issue until one of the Behemothmobiles collides with one. I would suggest banning all SUV sales within 3 years. Mandate a 5 year plan for all existing ownership vehicles. The independent family bus model is due for extermination. We go to war for oil and people die. That is the incentive.
Wally, what do you drive?
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Everything you say has to do with mindset and rationalizing a choice of lifestyle. People get in accidents riding bicycles. You can't blown down the interstate doing 80 MPH in a 5000 pound vehicle and not be compared to an ICBM. We go to war for oil and gas. People die. It is time to change the lifestyle. Anything less is not the answer.
I agree but you live in Florida. What would happen to the state of Florida if they banned all SUV's and trucks?
You know how many boats there are in the state of Florida that would either be impossible to tow, or towed by cars that weren't adequate for towing and thus unsafe to tow with?
Again, if the problem is as bad as people think it is, these are the things that someone has to make the hard call on.
Supposing Gore decides to run and wins in a landslide, is Al Gore going to have the cajones to do something like this either?
California went through this a few years ago when CARB essentially outlawed 2 stroke engines on new jetskis. Most lakes immediately followed suit banning 2 stroke jetskis(many I guess not most) and suddenly thousands of people had a jetski they couldn't legally use at many lakes, and couldn't sell in the state of California(selling it made it have to pass the new CARB rules). So they either had to sell it out of state, or trade it in and buy a new one.
Imagine that on a national scale with cars and SUV's and trucks?
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Last edited by Russ Smith; April 3rd, 2007 at 01:58 PM.
Don't want to get them off the road or ban them. As the price of gas increases the free market will take care of that, I'd just like to help the process along a little
If you want the boat then you need to pay for the equipment to tow it safely as you said. Brakes on the trailer make it safer but as you say they have to be maintained and that costs money.
Most boats owners would rather take the risk than pay. Just like most boat owners utterly ignore the fact that trailers are not designed to do more than 55 mph, the bearings overheat among other things. I know of several friends who have heard a noise, slowed down only to see a trailer wheel run down the road past them.
Russ it's much the same issue, your average consumers cares little about anything other than their own convenience and wallet. The safety of others, pollution and the health of others is very low priority.
If you disagree take a look to see how many folks towing boats respect the speed limitation on their trailer, I'll let you know when I see one.
I agree but you live in Florida. What would happen to the state of Florida if they banned all SUV's and trucks?
You know how many boats there are in the state of Florida that would either be impossible to tow, or towed by cars that weren't adequate for towing and thus unsafe to tow with?
Again, if the problem is as bad as people think it is, these are the things that someone has to make the hard call on.
Supposing Gore decides to run and wins in a landslide, is Al Gore going to have the cajones to do something like this either?
California went through this a few years ago when CARB essentially outlawed 4 stroke engines on new jetskis. Most lakes immediately followed suit banning 4 stroke jetskis(many I guess not most) and suddenly thousands of people had a jetski they couldn't legally use at many lakes, and couldn't sell in the state of California(selling it made it have to pass the new CARB rules). So they either had to sell it out of state, or trade it in and buy a new one.
Imagine that on a national scale with cars and SUV's and trucks?
Don't want to get them off the road or ban them. As the price of gas increases the free market will take care of that, I'd just like to help the process along a little
If you want the boat then you need to pay for the equipment to tow it safely as you said. Brakes on the trailer make it safer but as you say they have to be maintained and that costs money.
Most boats owners would rather take the risk than pay. Just like most boat owners utterly ignore the fact that trailers are not designed to do more than 55 mph, the bearings overheat among other things. I know of several friends who have heard a noise, slowed down only to see a trailer wheel run down the road past them.
Russ it's much the same issue, your average consumers cares little about anything other than their own convenience and wallet. The safety of others, pollution and the health of others is very low priority.
If you disagree take a look to see how many folks towing boats respect the speed limitation on their trailer, I'll let you know when I see one.
Well we're straying off course here but how many car owners in general obey the speed limit? I'd wager the % of people towing boats who speed is no different than the % of people who drive cars and speed is, probably lower.
I see all sorts of idiots pulling boats though, people in carpool lanes(always with jetskis or ski boats, never fishing boats). But you'd be amazed at how stupid car drivers are around boats. I can't tell you how many times i've been tailgated and then had the driver pull in front of me and brake because they're mad that I'm going 55. Or race me as they're entering a freeway and I'm already on it, like it doesn't occur to them it's a lot easier for them to slow
down and merge after me, than it is for ME to brake enough to let them get in front of me without jacknifing.
It's not just boats though, there are a lot of trailers out there being towed by bigger vehicles that will have to be replaced to meet emissions regs unless someone comes up with a gas that burns 30% cleaner by 2016 and runs in existing vehicles.
But would you support a law lowering the speed limit to 55mph? Experts say that increases mileage 10-15%. That's of course reducing emissions so we could get a reduction instantly by just lowering the speed limit.
Don't ban them just make the owners pay a more realistic cost for running them. along with requiring standardized hight for bumpers
Let the markets do the rest
You can't the bumpers are higher because the whole vehicle is higher because it's built on a different frame.
FYI not all cars are the same height either. A friend of mine got hit in her small VW(the one that looks like a Fiero blanking on the name) by another small car and had lots of damage because their bumpers were different heights.
BTWm didn't the markets already decide this, isn't that how we got here in the first place?
You can't the bumpers are higher because the whole vehicle is higher because it's built on a different frame.
Not my problem. You want to build big SUVs/truck figure out a way to do it safely for the rest of us or go the way of other products that are dangerous to the general public.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Smith
FYI not all cars are the same height either. A friend of mine got hit in her small VW(the one that looks like a Fiero blanking on the name) by another small car and had lots of damage because their bumpers were different heights.
True but the difference isn't as great as it with with big trucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Smith
didn't the markets already decide this, isn't that how we got here in the first place?
Subsidized fuel prices, road construction and effective lobbying by detroit got us here.
Gas prices are going up and as Ford have found out the bottom is falling out of the monster truck market. I just think we should actually move it a little faster.
Right now we all get a subsidized ride. At the very least federal tax on gas should be sufficient to cover all military operations in the ME, in addition to what it currently pays for. It would be nice if there were an additional increment to pay for research as well. This is never going to happen.
Not my problem. You want to build big SUVs/truck figure out a way to do it safely for the rest of us or go the way of other products that are dangerous to the general public.
True but the difference isn't as great as it with with big trucks.
Subsidized fuel prices, road construction and effective lobbying by detroit got us here.
Gas prices are going up and as Ford have found out the bottom is falling out of the monster truck market. I just think we should actually move it a little faster.
Right now we all get a subsidized ride. At the very least federal tax on gas should be sufficient to cover all military operations in the ME, in addition to what it currently pays for. It would be nice if there were an additional increment to pay for research as well. This is never going to happen.
how are you planning to deal with things like Fed ex and UPS trucks? All small delivery trucks fit your definition of dangerous to the general public.
Who gets to decide what the safe vehicles are and what criteria is used?
What about airplanes, they're not clean either.
What about roach coaches, do you have any idea what the impact would be banning those kitchens on wheels.
Not my problem. You want to build big SUVs/truck figure out a way to do it safely for the rest of us or go the way of other products that are dangerous to the general public.
My experience has been the most dangerous drivers are in those little dart and dash cars. How about you don't pull out in front of the truck and cry when he runs over your sorry butt.
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