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Old November 12th, 2003, 06:49 AM   #1
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Question

Should Women Be in Combat?


Group: Lynch Proves Women Shouldn't Be in Combat

Jon E. Dougherty, NewsMax.com
Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003


In time for Veterans Day and the release of former Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch's autobiography, a military reform group is calling on President Bush to revise "Clinton-era rules" it says unnecessarily expose servicewomen to greater risk.
The Center for Military Readiness, in a position paper published on its Web site, says new details about the sexually abusive treatment of Lynch by her Iraqi captors should be enough to spur lawmakers into ensuring military women in the future are better protected and shielded from combat roles.

"We need brave women in the military, but no one's daughter should have to suffer an ordeal comparable to that experienced by the 19-year-old Lynch — not in the name of women's careers, men's resentment, military necessity, or anything else," said a statement by the Center.

In an effort to prompt changes, the center has initiated a petition drive (www.americansforthemilitary.com) directed at President Bush, asking him to order civilian and uniformed military officials to allow "female soldiers to serve their country without deliberate exposure to greater, unequal risk."

The petition, which the center said Tuesday has already garnered more than 18,000 signatures, is also being supported by 15 other groups, according to a statement.

Elaine Donnelly, the Center's president, told NewsMax the changes recommended in the petition should be implemented before the next major U.S. military engagement.

"We felt the changes were necessary before the war in Iraq, but it wasn't appropriate" to suggest them while American forces were in harm's way, Donnelly said.

Specifically, the petition calls on the president to:


"Find a way to allow military women, especially those in support units, to serve without undue exposure to 'a substantial risk of capture' in or near close combat units, to the greatest degree possible.

"Restore single-gender basic training in the Army, which experts have recognized as a more efficient and militarily effective format for male and female trainees alike.

"Review and revise well-meaning but problematic pregnancy and family policies that hurt readiness by increasing single parenthood, and poverty in the military, as well as the incidence of long-term separations of young children from single or dual-service parents.
"Revoke perceived pressures for gender-based recruiting goals and quotas, which unnecessarily burden recruiters and increase the cost of maintaining a strong and ready All-Volunteer Force."
Jessica's Ordeal

Lynch's unit, the 507th Maintenance Ordnance Company, fell under Iraqi attack near Nasiriyah on March 23. In the ensuing battle, 11 fellow soldiers would die, and Iraqi troops took Lynch prisoner.

Though U.S. special forces rescued her from an Iraqi hospital April 1, according to her autobiography she was first raped and sodomized by her Iraqi captors. The claim of sexual assault is disputed by Iraqi doctors, who said they saw no evidence of it while Lynch was in their custody.

Nevertheless, Donnelly says Lynch's ordeal justifies the petition.

"You've got contradicting stories, but ... one does not preclude the other." Keeping women out of harm's way is the issue, she told NewsMax.

Privacy vs. Military's Needs

Citing the secrecy surrounding Lynch's alleged sexual abuse, Donnelly said the military had created a "dichotomy" for itself: protecting a woman's right to privacy at the risk of undermining the chain of command.

"What I see as an emerging controversy ... is this issue of confidentiality," Donnelly said. "You can't have it both ways. You can't say we're sending women into units known to involve a high risk of capture [and ensuing abuse] and then say if anything bad happens, it falls under confidentiality rules."

Donnelly said it didn't matter "if it happens at the Air Force Academy or at the hands of the enemy," protecting confidentiality of the victim at the risk of keeping commanders "in the dark" undermined command and placed women in an unfair advantage over men.

"Sometimes due process goes out the window once you're accused," she said. "But if commanders are expected to be responsible for what happens, then confidentiality isn't consistent with that."

Clintonoid Rules

The center said the Clinton administration implemented the rules of engagement for women that placed Lynch and other female military personnel in harm's way in Iraq.

"In 1994, Bill Clinton's Secretary of Defense Les Aspin announced new personnel assignment regulations that were billed as expanded 'career opportunities' for women," said the center, in its position paper. "Female enlistees, including Lynch and former prisoner of war Spec. Shoshana Johnson, clearly were not aware that the rules had changed. No one told them, it seems, that women would be assigned to previously all-male units, even in support missions known to involve a 'substantial risk of capture.'"

"These Clinton-era rules remain in effect today," said the center.

Johnson and Lynch, members of the same unit, were captured together March 23.

"Without further delay, President George W. Bush should direct Pentagon officials to find a way for female soldiers to serve their country without deliberate exposure to greater, unequal risk," the center said.


Larry Flynt Thinks He's Cute

Adding to the controversy over Lynch, Bush-hating Democrat pornographer Larry Flynt reaped a bonanza of media attention for himself Tuesday by claiming he bought nude photos of her last month to publish in Hustler magazine. He claimed he decided not to publish the pictures because Lynch was "a victim of the Bush administration."

The photos supposedly show the undressed Army supply clerk posing with male soldiers.


"Jessica Lynch is a good kid, she's not a hypocrite or out to fool anyone," according a statement from Flynt. "She's just a victim of the Bush administration, who is using her to justify the war in Iraq and force-feed us a Joan of Arc."

Lynch has declined to comment.

Her attorney, Stephen Goodwin, said in a statement: "It's incredulous [sic] that anyone would think it appropriate in any way to attempt to publish unauthorized photos of Jessica - photos taken before she was deployed to Iraq and before her capture and rescue."
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Old November 12th, 2003, 08:39 AM   #2
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A. Interesting take. I think as long as women are made fully aware of the possibility of capture in their assignments and still choose to sign up for duty, they should be able to continue to server in combat operations.

B. Single gender training? Cant argue that one way or the other. Never ben in the military.

C. Lynch's lawyer offended that Flynt bought pictures of her from be fore she was deployed to Iraq? What that period of her life doesnt count anymore. If Lynch posed for these photos willingly, and gave legal ownership of them to the photographer. SHe's screwed, and Flynt has every right to purchase and publish them.
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:44 AM   #3
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Speaking as a former US Army Infantryman, the only answer to that question is...HELL NO!
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:46 AM   #4
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I agree.
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:49 AM   #5
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women get to die...


... as a result of these manly wars - why shouldn't they be allowed to kill as well?
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:50 AM   #6
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Originally posted by Renz
Speaking as a former US Army Infantryman, the only answer to that question is...HELL NO!
HOOAH!
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:51 AM   #7
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This is not about "not allowing" them to do something. This is about protecting them from some things.
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:54 AM   #8
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....


now that i think about it - AMERICAN women haven't needed to be in combat since maybe the civil war - who has ever actually invaded us since the Brits in the war of 1812?
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:59 AM   #9
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women belong in the kitchen, not on the battlefield
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Old November 12th, 2003, 12:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ryanwb
women belong in the kitchen, not on the battlefield
Do you tell your wife that?
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Old November 12th, 2003, 02:04 PM   #11
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Do you tell your wife that?

once.......

Trying to sleep on the couch really hurts my back so I just keep my mouth shut.
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Old November 12th, 2003, 11:23 PM   #12
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Do you tell your wife that?
I do, and she agree's with me!! But she is also more of a gurly girl, not the gun toting type!
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Old November 13th, 2003, 03:08 AM   #13
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War is not something I want anyone to have to endure. But when it is necessary then I think its something that men should do and women shouldn't be a part of directly. I think men are just better equiped physiologically and emotionaly to handle the stresses and trauma of a battlefield.

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Old November 14th, 2003, 06:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by CardinalMike
I think men are just better equiped physiologically and emotionaly to handle the stresses and trauma of a battlefield.
Well, in general, I suppose I agree with that statement. As a rule, women are more emotional than men. I know I couldn't handle it, but that's just me. I had two female friends in the military and, while they never saw action, I think they both would have fared okay should they have been sent to war.

I think the argument that a women shouldn't be put in that position because she might be raped is lame. She might die, too. War is hell.

I think a lot of people (at least my age) signed up for the service partly to get money for college, figuring they would never see war. I think the military needs to do a better job at letting these people know what they're signing up for. I don't know why Lynch signed up, but she certainly doesn't strike me as the "I really want to be a soldier" kinda gal.

Oh, and Ryan, I have a nice little plaque in my office. It reads "A woman's place is in control."
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Old November 14th, 2003, 12:37 PM   #15
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If a woman is willing to pick up a gun and shoot another person in the face, sure, let them fight.
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