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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: as person with a homo family member...
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Originally posted by Dback Jon Shawn - in many countries, choosing to be a Christian does open you to discrimination, death, etc - I am not denying that. One of my Mom's lifelong best friends is from India - when she became a Christian, she was kicked out of the house, and told by her own family that if they ever saw her again, they would kill her.
But in this country, especially in the South where I live, Christians control most everything. To offend a Christian is political suicide. Fundamentalists have to power to impose their way of life and thinking on everyone, so to claim in this context that a Christian is open for ridicule does not work.
I do appreciate your other words. I realize and understand what you believe in. I do not denigrate that. I just do not want others legislating their morality on my behavior, when that behavior in no way effects or harms them.
In the case of the south - the "good-ole boy network" is perhaps not that Biblical to begin with. There were posts earlier on this thread that spoke about the "Christian" label. I'm not so quick to call anyone a Christian just because they come from a particular geographic and demographic. A Christian - as I'm sure you'll agree - is not defined by such things, but rather by scripture. Therefore, if people claiming to be Christians are not living within the bounds of that lifestyle set-forth in scripture, then I would be hesitant in labeling them as such. Using "Christianity" in the name of fear, political manuvering, etc - in an unjust and unfair way is not Christianity at all because those things at the antithesis of it.
As far as what harm it causes or doesn't cause - I unable to answer that intelligently simply because I'm neither a doctor or a psychologist or a sociologist. I might be off base here - and you can let me know if I am - but to claim that it doesn't harm anyone else may be a mistaken assupmtion. I personally view that as being a very selfish perspective. I says to me (this may not be what you mean to convey - but it's how I view it) that you don't think that people care or have concern for your well being so you assume that it doesn't harm anyone. Obviously we aren't going to drag all our personal laundry out on a message board - but has your lifestyle caused you to lose some close relationships with friends or family? Don't answer that here - these are mose just rhetorical than anything. Did it take awhile for your family - who may unwaveringly support you now - time to adjust and accept your lifestyle? I think that it does effect those around you - but if you've been beaten down and have grown defensive about your lifestyle - perhaps it has obscured your view on this.
Anyway - just more rambling by someone who knows too little and says too much.
Shawn
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__________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
I actually have been very fortunate when it comes to friends and family - almost all have been very supportive and understanding, and not made me feel uncomfortable. The only real negativity has come from a first cousin (who is very close to the family) who has expressed reservations (not to me, but to my sisters and brother) about some things, but has still been very welcoming to me and my partner.
But I have seen many that are not so fortunate in that regard.
It is also difficult in the work environment, not knowing how others (especially bosses) would react. No one is uncomfortable talking about their marriage, children, church life, etc, but I feel like I can not really discuss these things, for fear of disapproval that would affect my job security, advancement, etc.
Originally posted by Audrey19 Proverbs 23:19-21 says "Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. 20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: 21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags".
With so much emphasis on proper eating and physical exercise here in America, it has caused many to examine their lifestyles. A lot of people have now become out of balance by putting too much emphasis on the physical man while neglecting the spiritual man. The other extreme is to be so spiritually-minded that we neglect our bodies by overeating or lack of exercise. The Lord desires order in this area, as our physical condition, if it is not properly cared for, affects our spiritual condition. We cannot serve the Lord to the fullest if our bodies are run down and tired and not functioning as God designed them to function. The medical world is now recognizing that gluttony is one of the major causes of many of our modern day illnesses. Moderation should be our guide.
It is easy to recognize that one of the greatest sins in the United States is gluttony. Food has become the god of millions. Jesus has never been made "Lord of the Fork." The Word of God has much to say about man's eating habits.
Jesus was a party goer and always had a crowd with him - of sinners I might add. That's why the religious leaders of his day despised and hated him and conspired to kill him - at least part of the reason. I think some people on the board put too much undue attention on things that they feel needs addressing. In fact it would be better to not nitpick and soap-box their beliefs an attitudes. There are far better ways to get your belief across than accusations.
The Bible has much to say about eating? Yeah, it does - do not judge a person by what they eat or do not eat - but by what comes out of their mouth. If one person is against eating meat - then for there sake do not eat meat in their presence so it will not cause them to sin - but rather sacrifice your wants and your desires so that you may show them love.
Those are just the Shawn White paraphrase - but those are some of the gist of the ideas. The point isn't in eating and not eating - it's in letting all your words and actions be governed by love for your fellow man. We want to put rules and regulations on people. That just further burdens them into a bondage of lists that they must follow. That is unscriptural and is a very dangerous practice. It's definitly not the Christianity as defined by the Scripture of the Bible.
So much for me saying that I wasn't going to get myself involved in any of this - ugh.
Shawn
__________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
Re: Re: Re: Re: as person with a homo family member...
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Originally posted by FischerKing
As for Tony - do me a huge, huge, huge favor - I'm begging you. I'm not responding to you because you're pompous and arrogant and I can't stand your attitude towards people. I'm sure Jesus wants you for a sunbeam...yeah, right. Please don't respond to what I wrote. It's a free country - you can do what you like and if you choose to respond that's your business - but I'm not going dignify you in turn. So I would ask that you save me the trouble and turmoil of screwing with my words and pointing out what you do and don't believe/agree in with what I've said. Save it for someone else.
no need to screw with your own words here pal. Check your heart.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: as person with a homo family member...
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Originally posted by Dback Jon You can marry, and all the attendant rights that entitles. In some states, you could adopt a child, I could not. In some states, what I do in my bedroom is illegal. It is still legal in most states to fire or discriminate against hiring someone that is gay. In some states, you can refuse to rent an apartment, house etc to someone that is gay.
None of these are RIGHTS. They are all privledges. Name one RIGHT that I have which you do not possess.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: as person with a homo family member...
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Originally posted by Dback Jon
But in this country, especially in the South where I live, Christians control most everything. To offend a Christian is political suicide. Fundamentalists have to power to impose their way of life and thinking on everyone, so to claim in this context that a Christian is open for ridicule does not work.
I do appreciate your other words. I realize and understand what you believe in. I do not denigrate that. I just do not want others legislating their morality on my behavior, when that behavior in no way effects or harms them.
And I do not want the homosexual legislating businesses that hire gay people and when it comes time to fire some of them because of poor work they scream discrimination. Wrongful dismissal can be proven and civilly compensated without any new legislation being added
I have known many people who have come from the South ... in fact your very region. They all say the same thing. The South is culturally Christian. There are real Christians in the South but most of it is phoney or only on Sundays. The Bible is very clear ... just because someone claims to be a follower of Christ does not really make them a follower of Christ.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: as person with a homo family member...
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Originally posted by Dback Jon Tony - I am done with you. The rights as stated in our Constitution to Liberty, Happiness, and Justice for all.
But you just want those for Christians that act according to the Book of Tony, correct.
Goodbye,
And have a pleasant day.
And you have all those rights ... the same rights I have, the same rights every other American (born here or not) has in this country. As I said before and have now proven you are wanting special, additional rights. Rights are very different then priviledges.
EDIT:
And BTW, we wouldn't have to have any of these conversations if you would only stop bringing up the subject by slandering me when you call me a gay-basher.
Last edited by Coyote Tony; April 5th, 2003 at 12:56 PM.
i think jon was saying that he is not allowed to do some of those things depending on which state he is in. that is probably when, and i think he was talking about gays in general, not just himself.
didn't dback jon list those as "rights" and then you told him that those weren't rights, they were "priviledges" and so i am guessing that jon was stating those as being things that some certain states would not allow him to do. i guess those would be the priviledges that he ins't allowed or most other gays for that matter.
Such as what??? Marriage??? Jon is not (than goodness I corrected my little typo on that word before mattyboy started using those quotes every time he types that word ) allowed to get married? What State has taken that privilege away from him?
Last edited by Coyote Tony; April 5th, 2003 at 07:21 PM.
) allowed to get married? What State has taken that privilege away from him?
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