justAndy

after readingback a couple pages to see what i missed, i have to reqest that tony tell "god" the next time he sees "him" that i say:
"piss off, you tyrant, look what your influence is doing to impressionable minds!"

Coyote Tony

Jon, I don't know what churches you go to but the churches I go to never preach about the dangers of specific groups of people who choose to sin. They preach about the indiviidual sinner's heart, the great love of God and the individual sinner's responsibility. The Bible is very clear on how it views homosexuality. Focus on the Family's message is that what is found in the Bible. Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuality is a choice. Homosexuality is detestable before God. And best of all, like other sins homosexuality can be forgiven because of the great love God has for all of us. Any other view is not a Biblical view of homosexuality. That is not a message of hate, but a message of love through truth.

No, Jon my church or larger group of the Bible believing community in this country and world is not about gay-bashing. But as you have shown here with your wishful stereo-typical views of Biblical Christians is bashing. The true God of the Bible is about love and forgiveness, not about bashing.

Jon, true Bibilical Christianty does not cause anyone to commit suicide or spur anyone onto beat others or kill others or discriminate anyone who is different or even taunt other people who are different. True Christianity gives hope to those who sin.

Seems the lable you like to place on me about being the ultimate judge is actually something you practice in your life:
Your life is filled with double standards, Jon. You claim I am a gay basher. Everyone who has ever read these posts knows that to be false. Although everyone who has read your posts knows that you are the only person bashing a particular group. You try to promote your erroneous propoganda by simply repeating the things that the general public can't stand such as discrimination and your very selctive use of words such as sect.

You're the only one who judges, bashes and discriminates regarding the particular subject of homosexuality on these boards, Jon. You try placing what you do and feel on others, but in reality it is only you.

So, to recap, Jon (so you don't mistake and judge and discriminate my faith and church again):
1) My church does not preach AT any particular group of people from the pulpit.
2) My church does not promote suicide, beatuings, taunting or discrimination of any kind.
3) My church is not some cultish sect as you like to call it but a Biblical Church.
4) I have not been the one bashing, judging or discriminating in this and all other threads.

Coyote Tony

And you don't post anything to get people's back up ... you just post more stereo-typical incorrect information. Before posting anything it would be the wise thing to know and understand what you try to make FUN (sorry for missing this word before) of.

KingofCards

__________________
"Let the rabbits wear glasses."

Coyote Tony

For someone who claims to be well read and intelligent I am surprised you would claim someone is "born" homosexual when there is absolutely zero proof of that. I too have friends and even family members who have choosen the homosexual lifestyle. that does not change what the Bible says about it.

Yes, the world does not like to be told their behaviours are offensive towards a Holy God. they only want to hear what strokes their ego instead of hearing of hearing the truth of all of our situation ... that we are all sinners and all are in need of a Saviour. God does love everyone and God does want to accept everyone ... the problem being God cannot accept the sin that comes with everyone.

justAndy

.. the point: there is no "god"
that's my heavily researched belief
so - you have to give "god" a message
I'm not making fun of you - maybe i was incorrect in the assumption that in your reality sphere, you talk to "god"
does our shared reality sphere include the phrase "GO CARDS!!!"?

Dback Jon

ONCE AGAIN TONY:

Your religion is your CHOICE - why should we protect you from discrimination for your CHOICE?

I was born gay, but you want to claim that I would choose to be mocked, degraded, a second class citizen. But you and others that CHOOSE to believe how you do want to use what you interpret as a reason to condemn others.

Recently, here in Nashville, there has been debate about whether or not to add homosexuality to the non--discrimination laws of the city, along with sex, RELIGION, etc. Everybody that has come out against it has cited RELIGION as their reason for their opposition. Many of the fundamentalist churches have made this a crusade to deny equal rights to gays.

__________________



R.I.P Tim Minnick

The KING of Cards

Coyote Tony

No Jon, I do not claim you choose to be mocked, degraded or made to feel like a 2nd class citizen. You choose your life just like I choose my life. I did not choose to say what is clearly written in the Bible. God did that. What is in the Bible about homosexuality is so clear that even many non-Christians understand that.

Why should the homosexuals have more rights then the heterosexuals? If someone is discriminated against for any reason they should all have the same rights to pursue legal compensation. Seems to me that's equal rights. Seems to me you have the same rights as I do. Jon, what rights have been denied you because you choose to have sex with another man?

No Jon, the crusade isn't against homosexuals but for the protection of the family and the Biblical way of life. You have freedom of choice. But, don't try to warp the Bible saying that God accepts something that He has clearly called sin.

Dback Jon

I never have said that gays should have more rights than straights - just the SAME DAMN RIGHTS. But you always forget that FACT.

How does equal rights for gays hurt the family? Doesn't adultery, divorce, alcoholism and about a million other things hurt worse, even if you thought homosexuality was a sin?

And where does protection towards leading a "Biblical Way of Life" matter, legally? You are trying to impose your rights ahead of mine - that is wrong.

__________________



R.I.P Tim Minnick

The KING of Cards

Coyote Tony

That's a different subject. I would not expect a person who does not believe in God and does not go to church regularly to worship God to obey God.

Coyote Tony

Yes, Jon all those other things destroy the family and the Bible is very clear that they do ... but all those other things are personal choices ... just like the act of homosexuality.

So, let's get down to specifics, Jon. What rights do I have that you do not have?

FischerKing

That's irony if there ever was such a thing. Why would a person CHOOSE to be a Christian to face ridicule, mocking, being made fun of, degradation, even death? Because they believe it to be true to the extent that they willing to allow themselves to suffer those things for the sake of their belief. So then, why would a person who is homosexual allow themselves to suffer those same horrible things? Because they believe that their lifestyle is a natural one. The rationalization is that no one would choose to suffer those things so then they must have been born that way - then, when they are ridiculed they can shirk the blame for their actions and choices by claiming that it is nature - not nurture - which made them the way they are - so it's not their fault.

A Modern Christian (I use that term for those who are now Christians under the New Covenant) were not born into their belief. They chose to believe - and yet they accept the burden up front that they will suffer much as Christ suffered because no servant is greater than the one he follows. And if Christ suffered by the hands and words of the world, so will his followers. They know that suffering is so interwoven in what they believe that they cannot separate the two. By suffering I'm talking about the things listed above - the accusations, the ridicule, etc.

Having said that - there are those who, for some sick reason, want to make themselves into some self-proclaimed martar by giving others undue reasons to heap insults at them. Then they can turn and say "See, I must be right, look at how much I suffer, look at how much the people in the world hate and condemn me". Those people are out of their minds - God does not wish us to purposefully go out of our way to find and invent ways to suffer more - that's just wrong and doesn't make much common sense.

Jon - please understand that I'm not attacking you. I'm just pointing that to claim that people would not purposefully choose a "lifestyle" that invites suffering - in it's various forms - is inaccurate. To me - Christianity is not a religion (ie. something cold and base lacking the Holy Spirit and done for external purposes only), but rather a lifestyle - one in which a person is consecrated to God each and every day - not just on Sundays.

As for Tony - do me a huge, huge, huge favor - I'm begging you. I'm not responding to you because you're pompous and arrogant and I can't stand your attitude towards people. I'm sure Jesus wants you for a sunbeam...yeah, right. Please don't respond to what I wrote. It's a free country - you can do what you like and if you choose to respond that's your business - but I'm not going dignify you in turn. So I would ask that you save me the trouble and turmoil of screwing with my words and pointing out what you do and don't believe/agree in with what I've said. Save it for someone else.

Shawn

__________________


"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."

"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21

"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface

Dback Jon

You can marry, and all the attendant rights that entitles. In some states, you could adopt a child, I could not. In some states, what I do in my bedroom is illegal. It is still legal in most states to fire or discriminate against hiring someone that is gay. In some states, you can refuse to rent an apartment, house etc to someone that is gay.

__________________



R.I.P Tim Minnick

The KING of Cards

Dback Jon

Shawn - in many countries, choosing to be a Christian does open you to discrimination, death, etc - I am not denying that. One of my Mom's lifelong best friends is from India - when she became a Christian, she was kicked out of the house, and told by her own family that if they ever saw her again, they would kill her.

But in this country, especially in the South where I live, Christians control most everything. To offend a Christian is political suicide. Fundamentalists have to power to impose their way of life and thinking on everyone, so to claim in this context that a Christian is open for ridicule does not work.

I do appreciate your other words. I realize and understand what you believe in. I do not denigrate that. I just do not want others legislating their morality on my behavior, when that behavior in no way effects or harms them.

__________________



R.I.P Tim Minnick

The KING of Cards

Audrey19

Proverbs 23:19-21 says "Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. 20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: 21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags".

With so much emphasis on proper eating and physical exercise here in America, it has caused many to examine their lifestyles. A lot of people have now become out of balance by putting too much emphasis on the physical man while neglecting the spiritual man. The other extreme is to be so spiritually-minded that we neglect our bodies by overeating or lack of exercise. The Lord desires order in this area, as our physical condition, if it is not properly cared for, affects our spiritual condition. We cannot serve the Lord to the fullest if our bodies are run down and tired and not functioning as God designed them to function. The medical world is now recognizing that gluttony is one of the major causes of many of our modern day illnesses. Moderation should be our guide.

It is easy to recognize that one of the greatest sins in the United States is gluttony. Food has become the god of millions. Jesus has never been made "Lord of the Fork." The Word of God has much to say about man's eating habits.

http://www.bible.com/answers/aglutton.html to view complete article.