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Old August 15th, 2008, 11:32 PM   #1
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Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...DpsLwD92IV55O0


MOSCOW (AP) — Russia warned Poland on Friday that it is exposing itself to attack — even a nuclear one — by accepting a U.S. missile interceptor base on its soil, delivering Moscow's strongest language yet against the plan.

American and Polish officials stuck firmly by their deal, signed Thursday, for Poland to host a system that Washington says is meant to block missile attacks by rogue nations like Iran.

Moscow is convinced the base is aimed at Russia's missile force, however, and the deal comes as relations already are strained over the fighting between Russia and U.S.-allied Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff of Russia's armed forces, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying.

He noted Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn said that would include elements of any strategic deterrence system, according to Interfax.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the deal "absolutely clearly demonstrates what we had said earlier — the deployment has the Russian Federation as its target."

However, speaking at news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Medvedev appeared to take a softer position than Nogovitsyn's on the Polish base, saying that "it is sad news for all who live on this densely populated continent, but it is not dramatic."

U.S. officials defended the missile defense deal and said the timing was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders amid the conflict in Georgia.

"Poland is an independent country. And it's an ally of the United States. And it's a democratic country, to whose security the United States is committed" through NATO, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said during a visit to Georgia's capital, Tbilisi.

"Russia should welcome having democracies on its border, not threaten them," she said.

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said Poland was willing to let Russia inspect the future missile base to give Moscow "tangible proof" that it is not directed against Russia's arsenal, the Polish news agency PAP reported.

At a news conference earlier in the day, Nogovitsyn reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile interceptors in Poland and a linked radar post in the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But the general's subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up the war of words.

Russian troops went deep into Georgia in the fighting, raising wide concerns that Russia could be seeking to occupy parts of a small, pro-U.S. neighbor that has vigorously lobbied to join NATO, or perhaps force the Georgian government to collapse.

"I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said when asked about Russian threats against Poland.

He also suggested that earlier U.S. offers for broad cooperation with Moscow on the missile defense program might be reevaluated considering the latest developments.

The missile deal, struck Thursday after more than 18 months of talks, must still be approved by Poland's parliament and signed by Rice during a future visit to Warsaw, possibly next week.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the United States agreed to help augment Poland's defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors in the eastern European country.

He said the deal also includes a "mutual commitment" between the two nations to come to each other's assistance "in case of trouble." That clause appeared to be a direct reference to Russia, whose resurgent muscle worries Polish leaders.

"Simply, the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said.

Making a visit to Russia, German Chancellor Angela Merkel suggested Russia be included in the missile defense system.

"From my point of view, this deal is not directed against Russia," she said in Sochi at a joint news conference with Medvedev. "We will continue to advocate that talks be continued on how we can convince Russia of this and also ... include it," she added.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 05:11 AM   #2
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Meh. If there's a nuclear war, pick your way to die: 1) Instant through nuclear strike; or 2) long and painful through the cloud of radiation that will surly result because of a nuclear war.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #3
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I can actually understands Russia's stance on this; imagine if it were Russia installing the exact same system in Canada and/or Mexico. I am sure we would react the same way...
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Old August 16th, 2008, 07:47 PM   #4
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I can actually understands Russia's stance on this; imagine if it were Russia installing the exact same system in Cuba. I am sure we would react the same way...
FTFY.

I'm sure something similar happened once...
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Old August 18th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #5
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FTFY.

I'm sure something similar happened once...
Maybe, but the missiles in Poland are a defensive platform not offensive. Not quite the same.

If Russia put defensive missile batteries near the Polish boarder would Poland pitch a fit? Probably not. This isn't a good comparison either and I don't think we can really find one.

I find it funny Russia feels like flexing its muscle right now.
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Old August 18th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #6
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I can actually understands Russia's stance on this; imagine if it were Russia installing the exact same system in Canada and/or Mexico. I am sure we would react the same way...
Or like Cuba!?!?!
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Old August 18th, 2008, 11:50 AM   #7
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Maybe, but the missiles in Poland are a defensive platform not offensive. Not quite the same.

If Russia put defensive missile batteries near the Polish boarder would Poland pitch a fit? Probably not. This isn't a good comparison either and I don't think we can really find one.

I find it funny Russia feels like flexing its muscle right now.
A bit different here - the missiles could be considered as an offensive threat by taking away Moscow's ability to retaliate with a nuclear strike if they are struck first. Or, in other words, it eliminates the MAD doctrine by preventing that which MAD is based on - no matter how hard you hit me, I'll hit you back hard enough to obliterate you.

That being said, I also think that our Red friends are trying to gain back their sphere of influence - Putin has said before that the disintegration of the Soviet Bloc was one of the most disastrous things for Russia, politically and in terms of worldwide power. So, that has a large part to pay in as well.
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Old August 18th, 2008, 02:23 PM   #8
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A bit different here - the missiles could be considered as an offensive threat by taking away Moscow's ability to retaliate with a nuclear strike if they are struck first. Or, in other words, it eliminates the MAD doctrine by preventing that which MAD is based on - no matter how hard you hit me, I'll hit you back hard enough to obliterate you.

That being said, I also think that our Red friends are trying to gain back their sphere of influence - Putin has said before that the disintegration of the Soviet Bloc was one of the most disastrous things for Russia, politically and in terms of worldwide power. So, that has a large part to pay in as well.
Exactly. Then an aggressive, warring country like the US, that runs around invading sovereign nations would have the upper hand and effectively tip the balance of nuclear power. Other countries should be afraid when war mongering dictators with a nuclear arsenal like Bush have that kind of advantage. Definitely not safe for the rest of the world… ;-)
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Old August 18th, 2008, 05:23 PM   #9
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Exactly. Then an aggressive, warring country like the US, that runs around invading sovereign nations would have the upper hand and effectively tip the balance of nuclear power. Other countries should be afraid when war mongering dictators with a nuclear arsenal like Bush have that kind of advantage. Definitely not safe for the rest of the world… ;-)
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Old August 18th, 2008, 05:27 PM   #10
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The truth seems to always leave you speechless. You could have at least posted some more bogus fluff on Obama from one of your right wing propaganda machines... At least then we'd have something to laugh at...
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Old August 18th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #11
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The truth seems to always leave you speechless. You could have at least posted some more bogus fluff on Obama from one of your right wing propaganda machines... At least then we'd have something to laugh at...
What has this got to do with Obama? Calling a legally elected president of the US a dictator would have some pondering your political acumen.
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Old August 18th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #12
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What has this got to do with Obama? Calling a legally elected president of the US a dictator would have some pondering your political acumen.
I see a man lying and invading a country where hundreds of thousands of people have died. I see a man reducing our freedoms and diminishing the constitution. I see a man who has illegally imprisoned thousands of people around the world and tortured innocent people. I see a man hell bent on destroying our economy by giving billions of dollars in contracts to his close connections in the oil, military industrial complex and construction businesses. I see an administration without any checks and balances, who continues to break laws without punishment. I think there are a lot of dictatorial qualities going on here…
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Old August 18th, 2008, 06:00 PM   #13
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I see a man lying and invading a country where hundreds of thousands of people have died. I see a man reducing our freedoms and diminishing the constitution. I see a man who has illegally imprisoned thousands of people around the world and tortured innocent people. I see a man hell bent on destroying our economy by giving billions of dollars in contracts to his close connections in the oil, military industrial complex and construction businesses. I see an administration without any checks and balances, who continues to break laws without punishment. I think there are a lot of dictatorial qualities going on here…
And this man has bypassed Congress to do all this? You obviously have no idea how this government works if you truly believe one man is powerful enough to do all this.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 06:46 AM   #14
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I see a man lying and invading a country where hundreds of thousands of people have died. I see a man reducing our freedoms and diminishing the constitution. I see a man who has illegally imprisoned thousands of people around the world and tortured innocent people. I see a man hell bent on destroying our economy by giving billions of dollars in contracts to his close connections in the oil, military industrial complex and construction businesses. I see an administration without any checks and balances, who continues to break laws without punishment. I think there are a lot of dictatorial qualities going on here…
I see.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 07:09 PM   #15
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I see a man lying and invading a country where hundreds of thousands of people have died. I see a man reducing our freedoms and diminishing the constitution. I see a man who has illegally imprisoned thousands of people around the world and tortured innocent people. I see a man hell bent on destroying our economy by giving billions of dollars in contracts to his close connections in the oil, military industrial complex and construction businesses. I see an administration without any checks and balances, who continues to break laws without punishment. I think there are a lot of dictatorial qualities going on here…
Are you a drama queen?
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