Welcome to ASFN Fan Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
I know that this topic may cause some tempers to flare but I am truly curious as to what the religous people on this board think. I am having this conversation with my girlfriend who is a devout Catholic and wanted some outside input.
The question is, is Jesus Christ techinically illegitimate?
By definition, illegitimacy is a child born of two parents out of wedlock. Since Jesus is the child of both Mary and God and they were not married, does that make him illegitimate?
Again, I'm not trying to be blasphemous. I am truly trying to get your opinions.
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
__________________
Wasted words on lower cases and capitals.
I lie for only you. And I lie well. Halleluh.
No. There was no intercourse involved. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.
The reason it had to happen this way is simple- mankind sinned in the garden of Eden, and became inherently sinful. Jesus had to be perfect, and the only way to achieve that was for Jesus not to be born from "the seed of men."
I can probably get a better, and more detailed answer for you, but this is it in a nutshell.
Stefan
__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."
"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."
"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."
I understand what you're saying but the definition of illegitimate says absolutely nothing about intercourse. It simply states a child born out of wedlock. Jesus is considered the child of both Mary and God right?
__________________
Wasted words on lower cases and capitals.
I lie for only you. And I lie well. Halleluh.
Originally posted by stompg I understand what you're saying but the definition of illegitimate says absolutely nothing about intercourse. It simply states a child born out of wedlock. Jesus is considered the child of both Mary and God right?
He's the Son of God, not Mary...she was just the vessel that gave birth to his earthly form I guess.
Sure, he was born out of wedlock, so from a person who didn't know what was going on, he was illegitimate, technically I guess.
I guess that would be an explanation. So you're saying that the creation of Jesus Christ does not adhere to human rules in such that there was no egg fertilized? That's the reason that he is God's son but not Mary's?
If that is the case, then why did God even bother with the incubation period? Why not just present a born child?
__________________
Wasted words on lower cases and capitals.
I lie for only you. And I lie well. Halleluh.
Ironic that you mentioned your girlfriend being a devout Catholic. The Catholic Church, a few centuries ago, proclaimed that Mary had not only "found favor with God" (as the Bible says) but she was PERFECT. Thus the "Immaculate Conception." The Catholic Church stands by their proclamation that Mary delivered Jesus through a virgin birth and then she NEVER had other children (which goes against the Bible), and she was/is a perfect being who did not die but ascended into heaven and is the "Queen of Heaven," etc... Proclamations like that are just an example of why so many broke away from the Catholic Church and started their own churches. Lutherans are very much like Catholics except that they do not idolize Mary as the Catholics do, etc.
__________________
"If Chuck is Solo, Larkin is his Fett!" - Morgan
Last edited by Brian in Mesa; October 14th, 2003 at 10:41 AM.
The "Assumption" was a topic of debate between us. That since Mary is considered perfect she is therefore free of sin and so Jesus cannot be illegitimate. Kind of a roundabout argument. Her father (who was a priest for many, many years) is working on an answer for me. That is why Mike's answer was surprising to me. Since her father was a Catholic priest and he believes that Jesus is the mother of God I was surprised to hear otherwise.
__________________
Wasted words on lower cases and capitals.
I lie for only you. And I lie well. Halleluh.
Not to draw the ire of some of the religious folk on the board, but certain biblical scholars do believe that Jesus was illegimate.
In certain passages throughout the New Testament, Jesus is referred to as "son of Mary" which in Jesus culture, meant that you were illegitimate.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain Not to draw the ire of some of the religious folk on the board, but certain biblical scholars do believe that Jesus was illegimate.
In certain passages throughout the New Testament, Jesus is referred to as "son of Mary" which in Jesus culture, meant that you were illegitimate.
To take this one step further...
Are we all not the children of God?
Hense, does that not make aal of us The Lord's "sons & daughters"?
So, does this make Mary, technically speaking, God's daughter?
So, at least according to the canons, isn't this the byproduct of an incestuous relationship?
Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken To take this one step further...
Are we all not the children of God?
Hense, does that not make aal of us The Lord's "sons & daughters"?
So, does this make Mary, technically speaking, God's daughter?
So, at least according to the canons, isn't this the byproduct of an incestuous relationship?
Interesting.
My personal belief is that Jesus is the product of premartial sex between Mary and Joseph, but anyone is free to believe what they want.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken That is the whole point of my asinine comment of logic.
This has to do with faith.
Either you believe it, or you don't.
Once you try to "break it down" the entire message is lost, and it becomes just another story.
Again I do agree. Many Christians get caught up in the "mythology" aspect, that they miss the entire message.
By definition, I'm not a Christian, but I do believe in the tenets of Christianity, and I do believe that Jesus had a greater understanding of God.
I just don't believe he was "the Son of God" since we all are the "sons of God" or the "daughters of God".
We are all a part of his creation. I don't believe in the Biblical account of Creation, but I do believe in a creator which used naturally observed processes to form our universe.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
... that may exist in this edition of the "universe" has got to be curled up into the higher dimensions... the religionist's final answer is MY final question.... A greater understanding of the latest models of reality would naturally preclude some of the ridiculous superstition promulgated by the religious extremists in our country...
Originally posted by andikrist ... that may exist in this edition of the "universe" has got to be curled up into the higher dimensions... the religionist's final answer is MY final question.... A greater understanding of the latest models of reality would naturally preclude some of the ridiculous superstition promulgated by the religious extremists in our country...
By belief on the creator is that the creator is.
It might sound silly, but I believe that the religious dogma is fake, human created, hogwash. But a creator makes sense.
This creator probably isn't even sentient. As humans, it is hard for us to understand a creative force that just is. This force is found in all creation, whether we are talking about the stars or we're talking about a cockroach.
I call myself an agnostic; I don't believe in human created religion, and I don't claim to have the answers myself beyond what I observe.
__________________
26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Tetris Champion!
Linear Mode
