Real life moral dilemna

Dback Jon · July 9th, 2003, 04:42 PM

In the other thread, we have been discussing mostly what ifs.
When I went home for dinner tonight I was confronted with a real life issue - it doesn't affect me directly, but close.

I would appreciate everyone's input on this. I may not agree with a lot of you, but I do respect and enjoy the debates.

The Situation:
My partner told me after dinner that his best friend (and "fag hag") 'Jane' had called - fairly upset and was coming down for a visit. Jane and my partner had gone to college together. Jane just graduated in June, and is looking for work. Jane found out today that she is pregnant. The dilemna - what to do.

Background:
Jane has one younger brother (Jim) who is in the military. Jane's parents divorced when she was young. Shortly after the birth of Jim (both Jane and Jim were delivered via ceasarian after difficult pregnancies) their mother developed MS. For the past 10 years, Jane's Mom was completely paralzyed by the MS, and could only communicate by blinking her eyes. She died this May, before Jane graduated. Jane's Dad is pretty much a deadbeat, and Jane's mom's family are all very religous - Southern fundamentalists, although neither Jane nor Jim are much into church.

The night:
Shortly after graduation, Jane visited some friends in Indianapolis. Jane had gotten very drunk, and starting messing around with a male friend of one of her friends that lived up there. One thing led to another, and soon both were undressed. They began to have sex, but Jane felt uncomfortable, and made the guy stop after a very short time. She then passed out, and did not awaken until the next day. So, she either got pregnant from the pre-ejaculate (which is possible), or, after passing out, the guy starting having sex again with her (which may qualify as rape). She has not talked to the guy since, and before the tests today confirmed her pregnancy, had no intention of doing so.

Now, Jane must decide what to do. Does she:

1) Have a quick abortion, never telling the father?
2) Consult with the father?
3) Have the baby, risking the health complications that eventually killed her mother?
4) If she chooses to have the baby, does she then:
a) Keep the baby, and try to raise it alone, while at the same time try to start a career?
b) Keep the baby, notify the father, get married to him?
c) Put the baby up for adoption.

Have at it - I would appreciate all of your input.
Thanks.

FischerKing · July 9th, 2003, 05:14 PM

First off - sorry to hear all of that. That is definitely not an easy way to go.

Next, personally - since I value life - I think it would be better to have the child and then decide to either keep it or put it up for adoption. I would much rather see a child be put up for adoption than aborted.

There are so many people out there who are unable to have kids due to medical reasons, but they really want them and they are always looking to adopt. I believe at least this way the child still has a chance to experience life and one never knows what they will grow up to be.

Also, if Jane at some future date wants to be re-acquainted with the child, there are groups and foundations that can help do this. To me it just leaves options open for the future rather than shutting the door via an abortion. Even though she may have zero intention know of wanting any type of relationship with the child, she cannot know for certain that she will feel the same way 10, 15 or 20 years down the road. Death is a bit permanent and once that path has been taken there is no turning back the clock.

If she does have it - then I would advise not making the decision to keep, tell or adopt until afterwards. She may change her mind about any of those things after she has held the child in her arms.

Anyway - don't know if any of that helped - but that's just my opinion on the matter. Good luck.

Shawn

Dback Jon · July 9th, 2003, 05:19 PM

Shawn - thanks for the reply.

How does she deal with the potential that the pregnancy could very easily cause a life threatening condition?

FischerKing · July 9th, 2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dback Jon
Shawn - thanks for the reply.

How does she deal with the potential that the pregnancy could very easily cause a life threatening condition?

You mean because of the past troubles that her mom went through? Yeah, I'm not a doctor so I that would be something that she would have to find out from a doctor as far as potential for danger, etc. That's not something that I'd feel to qualified to answer.

I would say that if it was life threatening to her then she obviously has the option to choose abortion. In my opinion, I view that as the final choice. But then, I'm not the one having to endure the risk of life. But to go through an abortion just for the sake of it can be risky as well - so that's really only something that she can ultimately decide.

The important thing is that whatever choice is decided and acted upon, she will definitely need a support system in place to help her through it. I don't believe any of the options that she has to face are easy. Further - whatever choice she makes has to be her choice, even with all the advice you are garnering, it comes down to what is she comfortable with and what can she ultimately live with. That's the ultimate issue - isn't it? She has to take responsibility for whatever she chooses to do - that's why it's important that it's her choice. Passing blame once a decision has been made - whether poor or good - only compounds the issue. I'm not saying that she's that type of person to do so - I don't know her - but you can't just look at the immediate, short-term effects of this either. You must factor in the long-term effects of any decision of this magnitude.

Shawn

Dback Jon · July 9th, 2003, 05:31 PM

Correct - it is her choice - we can only be there to help her, advise her, and support her. We will support whatever decision she makes. I am trying to think of answers for questions concerns she may have.

FischerKing · July 9th, 2003, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dback Jon
Correct - it is her choice - we can only be there to help her, advise her, and support her. We will support whatever decision she makes. I am trying to think of answers for questions concerns she may have.

Yeah - well, my only sound advice then would be that unless you are a professional or have had past experience dealing with this then it's probably wise to seek out that type of professional guidance in order to explore all your options.

Again, just my opinion. Good luck with it all - I don't envy your position one bit.

Shawn

Renz · July 9th, 2003, 05:41 PM

While some people are more susceptible to getting MS than others, there is no direct evidence that MS is inherited. Also, most people who get MS do so after the age of 20.

I am against abortion, so I would hope that she had the baby and gave it up for adoption if she couldn't keep it. I look at this sort of situation as "two wrongs don't make a right". The fetus isn't to blame and has a right to life IMO.

I also think that the father should be told and given a paternity test if he contests that the baby is his. If for no other reason than he should be financially responsible. Maybe he will want to be a part of the child's life, or even raise it if the mother cannot.

I recommend learning more about MS to anyone who is affected by the disease:

www.nationalmssociety.org

A difficult situation, but not hopeless by any means. I hope she has the support to get through this and not make any hasty decisions that she may end up regretting.

Cardinals.Ken · July 9th, 2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dback Jon
In the other thread, we have been discussing mostly what ifs.
When I went home for dinner tonight I was confronted with a real life issue - it doesn't affect me directly, but close.

I would appreciate everyone's input on this. I may not agree with a lot of you, but I do respect and enjoy the debates.

The Situation:
My partner told me after dinner that his best friend (and "fag hag") 'Jane' had called - fairly upset and was coming down for a visit. Jane and my partner had gone to college together. Jane just graduated in June, and is looking for work. Jane found out today that she is pregnant. The dilemna - what to do.

Background:
Jane has one younger brother (Jim) who is in the military. Jane's parents divorced when she was young. Shortly after the birth of Jim (both Jane and Jim were delivered via ceasarian after difficult pregnancies) their mother developed MS. For the past 10 years, Jane's Mom was completely paralzyed by the MS, and could only communicate by blinking her eyes. She died this May, before Jane graduated. Jane's Dad is pretty much a deadbeat, and Jane's mom's family are all very religous - Southern fundamentalists, although neither Jane nor Jim are much into church.

The night:
Shortly after graduation, Jane visited some friends in Indianapolis. Jane had gotten very drunk, and starting messing around with a male friend of one of her friends that lived up there. One thing led to another, and soon both were undressed. They began to have sex, but Jane felt uncomfortable, and made the guy stop after a very short time. She then passed out, and did not awaken until the next day. So, she either got pregnant from the pre-ejaculate (which is possible), or, after passing out, the guy starting having sex again with her (which may qualify as rape). She has not talked to the guy since, and before the tests today confirmed her pregnancy, had no intention of doing so.

Now, Jane must decide what to do. Does she:

1) Have a quick abortion, never telling the father?
2) Consult with the father?
3) Have the baby, risking the health complications that eventually killed her mother?
4) If she chooses to have the baby, does she then:
a) Keep the baby, and try to raise it alone, while at the same time try to start a career?
b) Keep the baby, notify the father, get married to him?
c) Put the baby up for adoption.

Have at it - I would appreciate all of your input.
Thanks.

This a tragic situation.

My "snap judgement" would be Option 1.

She has no idea if she will suffer any of the same effects from a pregnancy as her mother, she has absolutely no relationship with the biological father/rapist.

I'm sure she realizes that this is not a decision to be made lightly. It sounds like she has a good relationship with your mate. The only thing that the two of you can do is be there, give your opinion when asked, and support her decision.

I hope she has a strong "support group" of friends and family to help her through this...

thirty-two · July 9th, 2003, 08:18 PM

Yeah, this is a toughie.

If I were in her situation, my initial reaction would be to keep the baby but consider giving it up for adoption. Despite the risk for MS, I think Jane should take the baby to term. As Renz said, the fetus should have a chance at life.

But I guess the real question is, what kind of life?

If the baby is born into a world where he doesn't know his father, or if his mom ends up having MS, then that isnt really fair to him. But then again, giving him a chance at life despite those negatives will at least give him the opportunity to make something out of it. And it sounds like Jane will have a steady support group (your partner, her brother etc) which will help.

This is definitely a huge decision. It's a decision that needs to be thought about in every angle, every situation. And to me, as an outsider, I think giving the baby up for adoption might be the best for all parties involved. And like FischerKing said, there are plenty of couples out there who cannot conceive and would love to have a baby of their own.

Whichever she decides, I hope it's what she wants and what she can live with. I'd be interested in hearing how things eventually turned out.

Krangthebrain · July 9th, 2003, 08:30 PM

I'm sorry to hear this Jon, and I hope your friend is handling this ok. I would just comfort her, and tell her to look deep inside herself, and find the answer herself.

Every option should be equally weighed, and all the possible outcomes should be considered.

Dback Jon · July 9th, 2003, 08:34 PM

I appreciate all the honest answers.
Renz - thanks for the MS link.
thirty-two: I am glad for a woman's view as well.

It is going to be interesting few months.

justAndy · July 10th, 2003, 07:12 AM

how long pregnant?
if she decides to abort, it should be done before 20 weeks - after 20 weeks, the fetus will start to have neurological activity.
In any case, it's HER decision, her body, her emotions - no man has a right to tell a woman what to do...

SirStefan32 · July 10th, 2003, 11:13 AM

Like Shawn, I value life, and I would say that she should have a baby and then see what the best option is. I think it would be best to contact the local Crisis Pregnancy Center. Those people are experts and they will be able to give her more advice.

Stefan

Dback Jon · July 10th, 2003, 11:44 AM

Jane is one month pregnant. Just had the test done at the doctors yesterday.

Jane is right now leaning towards option 1. She is very worried about the MS (it runs in both sides of her family), as well as having Diabetes on both sides. She really had expected to never get pregnant.

I did advise her to talk to the local MS society about her concerns, and that abortion, while not ruling it out, should be her last option she considers, and not to rush to a judgement.

My roommate is more in favor of an abortion, but I think for more selfish reasons - he does not want Jane to take a chance with her health.

CardLogic · July 10th, 2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dback Jon

Now, Jane must decide what to do. Does she:

1) Have a quick abortion, never telling the father?
2) Consult with the father?
3) Have the baby, risking the health complications that eventually killed her mother?
4) If she chooses to have the baby, does she then:
a) Keep the baby, and try to raise it alone, while at the same time try to start a career?
b) Keep the baby, notify the father, get married to him?
c) Put the baby up for adoption.

Have at it - I would appreciate all of your input.
Thanks.

FisherKing pretty well has summed up my response also.

But there are a few things I might add:

Does the MS have any relation to pregnancies. My guess is no, it doesn't. I could be way off, but if correct then it is not part of the decision.

I believe the she should have the child. Only she can decide if she would choose to raise her or give him up for adoption.

Given the circumstances of the conception; Option 4 - part b is the most unlikely solution. It has worked for some, but only a minute percentage. Not a valid basis for marriage.

Real life moral dilemna

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