Propogandizing the Economy.... - Page 9

82CardsGrad · June 26th, 2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

Who is a fool?

BTW, the stock market collapse did not cause the Great Depression of 1929. The stock market collapse was a result of the failure of worldwide confidence in the U S Dollar. When the margins get called in due to the debt, they start jumping from the 19th floor.

Did anyone state or insinuate that the '29 Depression was caused by the stock market??

But thanks for that little factoid nonetheless Wally!

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

I "mock" because I was "mocked"... Sorry to have offended you however Rc...

I guess I did tweak you with the earlier comment, my bad.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 12:02 PM

I think it's ironic that Nixon said he wasn't a crook and he perpetrated perhaps the biggest monetary heist in history by taking us completely off the gold standard, 2nd only possibly to Woodrow Wilson when he got conned into letting the Fed come into existence.

Irony is funny.

AzCards21 · June 26th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivercard

Yeah, that seems obvious. But his mocking was clouding the issue.

Seems to me 82 handles the mocking much better than everyone else here. He didn't even reply to this gem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divide Et Impera

Conrad is proving to be prophetic, while certain *other* numerically named posters are proving themselves pathetic....

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divide Et Impera
Conrad is proving to be prophetic, while certain *other* numerically named posters are proving themselves pathetic....

Quote:

Yea... kinda like me saying today that 9/10th, the Cards will open up against the 9ers @ Monster Park... "Prophetic"... LMAO!

eh... hemmmm

AzCards21 · June 26th, 2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conraddobler

eh... hemmmm

Dang, missed that.

Rivercard · June 26th, 2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

I "mock" because I was "mocked"... Sorry to have offended you however Rc...

No worries, I'm not easily offended. I just tend to rebel against the Rush Limbaugh sytle of mocking. But I joined the conversation late so I apologize if I missed some of the earlier fireworks.

82CardsGrad · June 26th, 2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivercard

No worries, I'm not easily offended. I just tend to rebel against the Rush Limbaugh sytle of mocking. But I joined the conversation late so I apologize if I missed some of the earlier fireworks.

Ouch...

Gaddabout · June 26th, 2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

There are some of you who simply enjoy the hysteria-conspiracy... You prefer the fascination and the fantasy that comes with "predicting" the next great event that will end the greatest society on the planet... I get that... makes for great reading and maybe even a decent fictious movie or play!

The sub-prime lending mess deserves a bit of hysteria, 82. This is not some corporation with a fleet of accountants to distribute the debt. It's your next door neighbor with a mortgage payment they suddenly can't afford and a house that is worth much less than the loan.

The real estate market was stable with fixed loans. Keep the house five years and you've got some equity even in a flat market, probably enough to pay the Realtor and closing costs to get out of a bad deal. But homes bought at sub-prime rates now get harsh adjustments in minimum payments, the principle loan hasn't even been touched, and homes have already been devalued by as much as 25 percent in some markets. Do this over four quarters while the homes for sale stockpile and continue devaluation and you have billions in negative equity acquired by people who make less than $100,000 a year.

That affects pretty much every industry. Real estate is the primary investment for the average American.

Yes, that deserves a little hysteria.

82CardsGrad · June 26th, 2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaddabout

The sub-prime lending mess deserves a bit of hysteria, 82. This is not some corporation with a fleet of accountants to distribute the debt. It's your next door neighbor with a mortgage payment they suddenly can't afford and a house that is worth much less than the loan.

The real estate market was stable with fixed loans. Keep the house five years and you've got some equity even in a flat market, probably enough to pay the Realtor and closing costs to get out of a bad deal. But homes bought at sub-prime rates now get harsh adjustments in minimum payments, the principle loan hasn't even been touched, and homes have already been devalued by as much as 25 percent in some markets. Do this over four quarters while the homes for sale stockpile and continue devaluation and you have billions in negative equity acquired by people who make less than $100,000 a year.

That affects pretty much every industry. Real estate is the primary investment for the average American.

Yes, that deserves a little hysteria.

Back in the 70's & 80's, there were plenty of people who were upside down and owed more than their home was worth - perhaps more then than today...
Back in the 70's & 80's & late 90's there were plenty of people who lost jobs and couldn't afford their mortgage payments...

And I'm quite certain that in earlier decades, these dynamics were in play then too...

Now, I am certain that there were plenty of people who were "hysterical" over this sort of economic challenge. I'm not sure if we're now caught up in a game of semantics however - I feel terrible for anyone who gets caught up in this mess, just as I feel terrible for anyone who can't afford his/her own home or apartment, who can't afford to feed himself or his family, who doesn't have health insurance... However, "hysteria" is not the appropriate response, particularly on the part of those who have the means to actually make the situation better...

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaddabout

The sub-prime lending mess deserves a bit of hysteria, 82. This is not some corporation with a fleet of accountants to distribute the debt. It's your next door neighbor with a mortgage payment they suddenly can't afford and a house that is worth much less than the loan.

The real estate market was stable with fixed loans. Keep the house five years and you've got some equity even in a flat market, probably enough to pay the Realtor and closing costs to get out of a bad deal. But homes bought at sub-prime rates now get harsh adjustments in minimum payments, the principle loan hasn't even been touched, and homes have already been devalued by as much as 25 percent in some markets. Do this over four quarters while the homes for sale stockpile and continue devaluation and you have billions in negative equity acquired by people who make less than $100,000 a year.

That affects pretty much every industry. Real estate is the primary investment for the average American.

Yes, that deserves a little hysteria.

Well said.

These people are now paying more in interest on homes trying to save themeselves from disaster and can't buy tv's or take vacations or buy new cars or new much of anything, it's like a giant parachute on the economy because even though this isn't relatively that many people, if it's even 10% that's a giant drag on an economy that needs all to be running at full steam but has all these holes in it.

You add to that rising rates to make the good credit crew wait it out, then you've got a rather major problem for everyone, less cars sold, less Best Buy sales, less pretty much of everything.

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

Back in the 70's & 80's, there were plenty of people who were upside down and owed more than their home was worth - perhaps more then than today...
Back in the 70's & 80's & late 90's there were plenty of people who lost jobs and couldn't afford their mortgage payments...

And I'm quite certain that in earlier decades, these dynamics were in play then too...

Now, I am certain that there were plenty of people who were "hysterical" over this sort of economic challenge. I'm not sure if we're now caught up in a game of semantics however - I feel terrible for anyone who gets caught up in this mess, just as I feel terrible for anyone who can't afford his/her own home or apartment, who can't afford to feed himself or his family, who doesn't have health insurance... However, "hysteria" is not the appropriate response, particularly on the part of those who have the means to actually make the situation better...

Well it's not really about how any of us feel about them it's about what it does to the economy, what will the fallout be, will it be minor and absorbed or not.

I understand you're it'll be absorbed without too much trouble crowd but I don't believe that to be the case, I believe this will drive loss of jobs, slow the economy and at least put us in a recession.

wallyburger · June 26th, 2007, 12:58 PM

Factor in the new bankruptcy laws lobbied through Congress and this White House and the debtor's prisons will be awash with occupants. Strange coincidence I imagine some might say.

People with good paying jobs in a healthy economy pay their bills. So why the need for " go to jail " bankruptcy laws unless they will be needed. The holders of " paper " will be owning some large chunks of real estate and a closet full of promissory notes. Maybe the debtors can be their butlers.

82CardsGrad · June 26th, 2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conraddobler

Well it's not really about how any of us feel about them it's about what it does to the economy, what will the fallout be, will it be minor and absorbed or not.

I understand you're it'll be absorbed without too much trouble crowd but I don't believe that to be the case, I believe this will drive loss of jobs, slow the economy and at least put us in a recession.

I understand that... And once again, to clarify, I also believe that there will be many people who will suffer from this specific issue. And I too believe that this specfic issue will have some effect on our economy. I don't believe this specific issue will drive widespread job-loss, nor will it put us into a recession.
That said, I would not at all be surprised to see our economy stagnate and perhaps tip-toe into a modest recession. Again - speeding bullets do eventually fall to the ground...
But the sub-prime issue alone will not be the root cause here...

Rising bond rates and the resulting impact on our debt service, an inevitable global slow-down as well as our own inevitable economic downward cycling will be greater influences on our economy... And Conrad, did I mention that all bets are off should the next administration undo the Bush Tax Cuts??

82CardsGrad · June 26th, 2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

Factor in the new bankruptcy laws lobbied through Congress and this White House and the debtor's prisons will be awash with occupants. Strange coincidence I imagine some might say.

People with good paying jobs in a healthy economy pay their bills. So why the need for " go to jail " bankruptcy laws unless they will be needed. The holders of " paper " will be owning some large chunks of real estate and a closet full of promissory notes. Maybe the debtors can be their butlers.

See!! There's opportunity for everyone, even in their darkest moments!! Hysteria?? Bleh....