Propogandizing the Economy.... - Page 11

wallyburger · June 26th, 2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heucrazy

If you were stupid enough to get a interest only or adjustable rate loan then man up and take it.

People knew this was coming and they gambled with the market thinking they could sell and make a profit before their rates went up. There are no victims in this. These people knew what they were getting into and they know that when you gamble sometimes you lose.

The peddlers are geniuses and the buyers are morons?????? Right??????

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckjake

All that happened in Austin area in the late 1980's. NCNB was nicknamed No Credit for Nobody. There were 1000's of foreclosures. All the Savings and Loans went broke. Many loan officers went to jail. Everybody else moved to Virginia. By 1991 the economy was booming again. By the end of the decade there were surpluses in the state treasury. Except for a brief period after 9/11 things haven't slowed down since. You just never know.

Well here for example the housing market is pretty ok, we didn't see tremendous run ups and so we have no tremendous downturns and the economy is ok for now.

What worries me is that we're at a stage that the Fed is in a real pickle, it wants to lower rates and already would have but inflation from all the previous money printing in the past is nipping at their heels, if the don't fight that and cut rates they'll let it out of the bag, if the leave rates alone the economy gets worse.

The really scary part though was when Greenspan used to be puzzled about when he was raising rates for almost 2 years but the mortgage rates and 10 year bond stayed low, he wondered about that several times.

The scary answer is that we don't control our own mortgage rates, people who buy our bonds do and so it's not up to the Fed what happens on mortgage rates, if Japan and China don't want to buy then rates skyrocket even if the Fed cuts.

conraddobler · June 26th, 2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

The peddlers are geniuses and the buyers are morons?????? Right??????

The people who designed these now hold a good deal of them, the borrowers who took the loans get a house, free rent for about 6 months during foreclosure and some good leasons, the people holding the notes get a good ole fashioned kick in the financial groin.

100,000 loan in a declining market with zero down it'd be nothing to lose 30,000 on that easy again in a tough sales market.

You start flinging that kind of loss around and multiply it by a few hundred thousand or so and you got a problem of some size to it.

Now who's the idiots?

Heucrazy · June 27th, 2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

The peddlers are geniuses and the buyers are morons?????? Right??????

I've lived in Reno most of my life and I have zero symphathy for gamblers.

These people knew what they were getting into. And if they didn't then they are complete morons for buying a house without reading their contract or doing any research on the market.

conraddobler · June 27th, 2007, 09:32 AM

I don't feel sorry for anyone either, people who ATM'd their house, oodles of questionable people that piled into the mortgage business or the sleeze bankers that made a killing off of ripping people off with crappy products.

I just would rather not have to suffer along with everyone else as this works itself out but we all don't get that luxury.

wallyburger · June 27th, 2007, 09:55 AM

I have seen, read, heard tons of marketing devoted to the American Dream of owning a house. Same goes for easy credit you didn't know you had. Don't know when , or if, I have ever come across anything that mentions the pitfalls of these bargains and their inherent fallacies. Mc Cluhan said , The medium is the massage. Where was the FTC and the rest of the regualtors then???????

Stupid people do stupid things, but they need help doing them, cause they ain't smart enough to do it on their own.

conraddobler · June 27th, 2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

I have seen, read, heard tons of marketing devoted to the American Dream of owning a house. Same goes for easy credit you didn't know you had. Don't know when , or if, I have ever come across anything that mentions the pitfalls of these bargains and their inherent fallacies. Mc Cluhan said , The medium is the massage. Where was the FTC and the rest of the regualtors then???????

Stupid people do stupid things, but they need help doing them, cause they ain't smart enough to do it on their own.

I can't even begin to count the number of FTC violations on disclosing APR's that happen on the drumbeat radio ads and TV ads and print ads.

There are laws that cover a lot of this, they weren't / aren't enforced.

The simple answer is to license Mortgage Brokers nationwide so I can do a loan in any state but make that license worth something by actually pulling it when wrongdoing is proved.

We should have regulations on this industry just like the SEC puts on stock brokers, same concept and if that was done, there wouldn't be a problem of this size ever.

82CardsGrad · June 27th, 2007, 11:21 AM

Are there some who didn't read the fine print or ask the right questions?? Sure...
Are there some who did read the fine print and did ask the right questions, and still felt it was worth the gamble to go with a risky loan? Sure...

Not every person/couple who signed up for one of these loans was "swindled"... I believe that in the majority of cases, they knew perfectly well the risks associateed with these mortgages, yet dove in nonetheless...
They rolled the dice and for many, they will now suffer the consequences that come along with poor decision-making.
Our gov't should never be asked to protect the stupid.

conraddobler · June 27th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

Are there some who didn't read the fine print or ask the right questions?? Sure...
Are there some who did read the fine print and did ask the right questions, and still felt it was worth the gamble to go with a risky loan? Sure...

Not every person/couple who signed up for one of these loans was "swindled"... I believe that in the majority of cases, they knew perfectly well the risks associateed with these mortgages, yet dove in nonetheless...
They rolled the dice and for many, they will now suffer the consequences that come along with poor decision-making.
Our gov't should never be asked to protect the stupid.

I totally agree, however a lot of problems in our industry are from fraud and lies.

There is an old standby legal precedent that written contracts trump oral ones so in effect I can stand there and say a thousand times that a loan is a fixed rate loan, yet at close if you don't read and verify that you can't do anything to me because you signed the papers.

I don't operate that way but a lot of brokers are plenty capable of doing something like that and do it all the time to relatively savy borrowers.

The real problem though is out and out fraud but that's already illegal the government should prosecute that and IMO license people to make it harder to do that for a long time, other than that there shouldn't be any more laws there are plenty already.

Most customers fought me tooth and nail when I tried to sell them Subprime loans with higher rates that were fixed, we're talking a rate of 8% vs 7.5% and if I insisted on the fixed rate they'd just go down the street and get the 7.5% loan, so I did some 2/28's sure.

I also told them to keep their credit clean and refi and A LOT did not do that, they got worse as they do and now they are farked.

Some got 2nds behind these which is the equivalent of digging your own grave, of course they didn't call me to ask they just got one from whoever sold them one, bad bad idea.

Most times when you deal with these people they don't listen, it's the sad truth.

82CardsGrad · June 27th, 2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conraddobler

I totally agree, however a lot of problems in our industry are from fraud and lies.

There is an old standby legal precedent that written contracts trump oral ones so in effect I can stand there and say a thousand times that a loan is a fixed rate loan, yet at close if you don't read and verify that you can't do anything to me because you signed the papers.

I don't operate that way but a lot of brokers are plenty capable of doing something like that and do it all the time to relatively savy borrowers.

The real problem though is out and out fraud but that's already illegal the government should prosecute that and IMO license people to make it harder to do that for a long time, other than that there shouldn't be any more laws there are plenty already.

Most customers fought me tooth and nail when I tried to sell them Subprime loans with higher rates that were fixed, we're talking a rate of 8% vs 7.5% and if I insisted on the fixed rate they'd just go down the street and get the 7.5% loan, so I did some 2/28's sure.

I also told them to keep their credit clean and refi and A LOT did not do that, they got worse as they do and now they are farked.

Some got 2nds behind these which is the equivalent of digging your own grave, of course they didn't call me to ask they just got one from whoever sold them one, bad bad idea.

Most times when you deal with these people they don't listen, it's the sad truth.

For the record, I dealt with a mortgage broker once in my life, approx. 20 years ago, and I quickly learned to never work with one again... Since that time, I have only done business with large lending institutions and banks - for the most part, Wells Fargo & BofA... I see no purpose for mortgage brokers whatsoever. When asked, I instruct anyone in earshot to never work with a broker and only deal direct with a national, reputable lender.
I have yet to hear a convincing arguement from anyone as to why working with a broker is more advantageous versus dealing direct with large, national lenders...

CardFan67 · June 27th, 2007, 11:54 AM

I made some lucky decisions over the last few years and I am hoping it pays off for me. We could not come to terms with any of the home owners that we put bids out on so we ended up doing a lease with the option to buy. So far looking so good.

conraddobler · June 27th, 2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

For the record, I dealt with a mortgage broker once in my life, approx. 20 years ago, and I quickly learned to never work with one again... Since that time, I have only done business with large lending institutions and banks - for the most part, Wells Fargo & BofA... I see no purpose for mortgage brokers whatsoever. When asked, I instruct anyone in earshot to never work with a broker and only deal direct with a national, reputable lender.
I have yet to hear a convincing arguement from anyone as to why working with a broker is more advantageous versus dealing direct with large, national lenders...

I'm sorry you got taken by the broker but if you trust banks I've got some land to sell you in Arizona that's ocean front.

I beat their deals all the time, banks are stupid and lazy.

And for the record, list what you do so we can all vote on if it's worthwhile or not?

The problem is you've never met a good one, and you probably won't either with your attitude.

Rivercard · June 27th, 2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conraddobler

I'm sorry you got taken by the broker but if you trust banks I've got some land to sell you in Arizona that's ocean front.

Awesome! Will you sell me an interest only ARM to pay for it?

conraddobler · June 27th, 2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivercard

Awesome! Will you sell me an interest only ARM to pay for it?

Not only that I'll sell you and interest only option POWER arm that's got a nice negative amortization feature that will truly warm you heart..

82CardsGrad · June 27th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conraddobler

I'm sorry you got taken by the broker but if you trust banks I've got some land to sell you in Arizona that's ocean front.

I beat their deals all the time, banks are stupid and lazy.

And for the record, list what you do so we can all vote on if it's worthwhile or not?

The problem is you've never met a good one, and you probably won't either with your attitude.

Conrad, sorry if you took my comments personally... To clarify, I did not get "taken" by a broker. What I discovered was that for all his self-indulging and self-promoting, I could have gotten a similar deal at a national lender, with half the paperwork and in less than half the time.
There is a very shady, snake-oil salesman feel I got from the broker experience, all the way down to how the closing was mis-managed, that I have never once experienced with a national lender...

And, while you seem to take offense with my comments, you didn't offer any rebuttal to support the need for or value brought by brokers...