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Evangelicals to Bush: Payback time - Christian Conservatives Say They Gave Bush 'Moral Mandate'; Call Him to Act on Their Behalf
by ABC News
Link to Article
Among some conservative Christians, there is a belief that President Bush received a "moral mandate" to win the recent presidential election -- and they are calling on him act on their agenda now.
"I believe Our Lord elected our president and I believe he put him in office and it is my prayer that he will sustain him in office," said one woman at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
Another was asked if she believed that God intervened in the election. "Absolutely," she said.
"Values" voters delivered for the president, and the president must now deliver for them -- especially in the courts, said Gary Cass, head of a grassroots political organization affiliated with Coral Ridge, called the Center for Reclaiming America.
"It's about the next 40 years and how the courts are going to affect the world in which my children and grandchildren are going to be raised in," he said.
Cass wants a U.S. Supreme Court that will outlaw abortion and gay marriage. "Do you want to take your children to a National League baseball game for instance and have homosexuals showing affection to one another? I don't want my kids to see that," he said.
Risking God's Wrath
By one measure, conservative Christians comprised 12 percent of the electorate this year -- the same as four years ago. But they see themselves as a crucial piece of the president's political base.
They believe that if their agenda is not implemented quickly -- if their concerns are not addressed in a timely fashion -- God will be angry.
One leading evangelist recently warned, "God's patience runs out."
Dr. James Kennedy delivers sermons at Coral Ridge which are broadcast to three million homes. He said he knows of no timetable for God's wrath, but wants results fast.
He dismissed the concerns of people who worried about the impact of Christian conservatives on the U.S. government.
"Repent," he said with a laugh. "Repent. That's what I'd say."
People who are concerned about the influence of Christianity "have never really surrendered their life to God and submitted themselves to his commandments -- and if they did that they wouldn't have so much concern about some court saying again that it's wrong," he said.
Asked about the millions of Americans who are not Christian, or have a different interpretation of Christianity, Kennedy said with another laugh: "I couldn't care less. It's true."
"I think that the idea that the worst sin that somebody can commit is to offend somebody is ridiculous," he said.
Evangelicals say Kennedy may seem intolerant, but there's no greater love than upholding the will of God.
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In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
Asked about the millions of Americans who are not Christian, or have a different interpretation of Christianity, Kennedy said with another laugh: "I couldn't care less. It's true."
Heil CRPC!! Heil CRPC!!
Intolerant fascist buttholes.
Stick your "national religion" right up your arse.
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You can't ride home on a bowl of goat.
I've always said that.
i saw something, don't remember where, that claimed that the percentage of voters citing "moral values" as important in their vote, has actually declined since 1996 - from 40% to 35% in 2000 and 30% in 2004.
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Wow the lines are blured between knowledge and belief.
You can believe in something to be true, but that does not mean it is true factual knowledge.
I believe in Jesus, but does that mean its a fact, no. In my mind its a fact, but it is not a confirmable fact of the world. There is a clear distinction here. Just because I feel I'm right, doesn't make others viewpoints are wrong. Religion can be different, yet have the same end result, even a lack of religion. This clear headedness on the topic is a trend many people do not subscribe to and he is a champion of those people without that viewpoint (clear headedness of the topic).
About seeing gays kissing...well, personally I wouldn't like that too much either, but you know what, after the 2 sec ugh i'd think internally, I'd laugh, and go about my business, having a good time at a game. That person, would let it ruin their day most likely. See it as evil, that they're going to hell, and if my child see it, they might TURN gay. Well if they let it ruin their day then they deserve those feelings the holier than thou seem to perpetuate on themselves. And the fear they gather from that is what they want to calm through legislation. (regardless of what most republicans voted for bush for, you can bet that fear was the main factor with THESE people[religious] or majority of them) (fear of gays, fear of society, AND fear of terrorism)
Anyways, It's AMERICA. You are allowed to kiss anyone in public.
Gov't in america was seperated from church for one reason. No, not to protect religion, TO PROTECT GOV'T.
We were a highly relgious people in 1776, and we did not want one faction to overtake gov't. Most of the people who created our gov't were seperated from conventional forms of religion. They thought it was great, but just not for them. The founders of our consitution wanted to make sure both survived and were allowed, but that one wouldn't usurp the other. As both are essential to form a more perfect union.
Well we see that the religious right wants to do this. Take over gov't to some degree, or pass ITS test, a religious test (like what bush harped against the so-called global test which simply meant our actions should be justifiable to the world, what the heck is a religious test). This report is one of many I've seen, heard, or read over the last few months which states religious ambitions are eyed towards gov't.
Religious states tend not to work so well and oppress many going by history. Obviously they have an agenda, and its obvious it would oppress many people, like homosexuals...among many other "types" and "behaviors" they decree they should CONTROL.
(Their intentions are good, but how many hideous things have been done under the guise of "I had good intentions") Well guess what...according to hitler...he had good intentions..(of course they're different, but in context, good intentions does not equal righteousness or the right/fair course of action to take)
Land of the free...not unless it conforms to their "freedom"
Personally, I think that intolerance is far more displeasing to god than homosexuals living their life in an honest, spiritual, and kind lifestlye. Helping the needy and such.
He who casts the first stone.
I don't know about you, but this assault on our rights seems to me is a degradation of true spiritual leadership from churches. I mean if they are telling people that you can't choose god, or right from wrong, because we will choose for you and ram it down your throats..then what part of free will of choosing right/wrong will you have?
You have to inform people right/wrong, you have to give alternatives, you have to level with people. You don't ram it down their throats, and if they want to ram it, which appears to be the case, maybe THEY should read their bibles a few more times...because that ain't what is says about treating your fellow human.
People like that should be ashamed of themselves.
They need to quit worrying about whats going wrong with society individually, and using this as an excuse to control everything. They need to start looking at what is being taken away from us collectively.
They shouldn't be pushing people away if they don't conform to their interpretation. They shouldn't be blaming society and everyone in it for our troubles. They should be lifting us up with hope, faith, and direction. Not legislation. We're all in this together, and we're ALL sinners. Just ask the priests.
It seems to me the real degredation is with the church itself, rather than its consituents. Or they have more power to use now, or feel they can reach that power more now, then in the past.
To use an old star wars proverb, the more they tighten their grip, the more will slip through their fingers.
I agree with the teachings the bible gives us, I don't agree with every interpretation made by those which now want to legislate things.
I don't care if someone has a koran, 10 commandments or whatever, wherever they wish. I don't think such things matter. You don't like it, don't look at it. No one is forcing you to read it. If you accidently read something, it ain't going to corrupt you.
But forcing us to follow one set of interpretations of christianity, let alone any other type of religion by legislating what they want, shows weakness and closed mindedness in my book. That forcing is what is illegal, not the suggestion that one person wants to make available to you via a ten commandments statue.
I say, learn to preach better and have an open mind.
Growing up I thought christianity taught us some righteous concepts; tolerance, open-mindedness, and faith.
I guess by their actions I've seen, and what they are saying they want to do, I see: intolerance, closed-mindedness, and lack of overall faith in humanity. That's the most distrubing aspect. That flip-flop will cause more harm than anything they are preaching they need to protect us against.
And to protect us from those things, they will take whatever they feel they need to away from us. Where that is, I have no idea. But I am sure I don't wanna find out.
Will bush give them what they want. Maybe a bone here or there, or maybe the whole doghouse. I'd be hard pressed to say he will give them everything, but its still a chance....and that chance is above any other president during which I have been alive. Even if its a bone, how big is it. It might be a big one, and if it is, it would be enough to justify all the concerns on this issue with bush pre-election. It won't take much for bush to go overboard, and I'm concerned that with the pressure to go overboard, he'll go way too far by conceeding on a few things, like maybe one or two justices or something like that. Sort of like if a bum asks for a dollar you might give it to him, but if a bum asks for ten, you may give him five.
Well we don't need to give "religious figures" five because they asked for ten. And in this scneario, I wouldn't give even one.
Thats just my opinion
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Last edited by CardsFan88; November 29th, 2004 at 06:31 PM.
The whole 'moral values' as a catch-all term is ridiculous anyway. A voter on the moral left is just as concerned with their moral values as is a voter on the right.
but that's not a new thing for me. Why is it OK for the left, moral or not, to impose it's will and want on a nation, but not the right christian or not?
88 -there is more written and crossed reference, eye wirness material to "factualize" Jesus Christ and His expeditions, with much less "legend", than there is any other figure of history of those times.
Do I agree with extremists of either side? Nope. Do I think the pendulum has been swinging to the extreme left for a while now? Yes. Is it starting to swing back? Yes. Is that good? Only if it can come close to a little shy of the middle one way or the other.
However, just as liberals say "you can just turn the channel", so can anyone else. Taht's if you don't subscribe to Mr. Kennedy.
Finally-the President of the United States of America has an awful lot of advisors, Senators and Representatives that will have alot of say in what he acxtually does or doesn't do.
Gentlemen- religion and faith are two completely different things. I'm not religious by any means but i am certainly a man of faith.
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"Well I'm near the edge and just thank God for time."-Blind Faith
but that's not a new thing for me. Why is it OK for the left, moral or not, to impose it's will and want on a nation, but not the right christian or not?
88 -there is more written and crossed reference, eye wirness material to "factualize" Jesus Christ and His expeditions, with much less "legend", than there is any other figure of history of those times.
Do I agree with extremists of either side? Nope. Do I think the pendulum has been swinging to the extreme left for a while now? Yes. Is it starting to swing back? Yes. Is that good? Only if it can come close to a little shy of the middle one way or the other.
However, just as liberals say "you can just turn the channel", so can anyone else. Taht's if you don't subscribe to Mr. Kennedy.
Finally-the President of the United States of America has an awful lot of advisors, Senators and Representatives that will have alot of say in what he acxtually does or doesn't do.
Gentlemen- religion and faith are two completely different things. I'm not religious by any means but i am certainly a man of faith.
I wouldn't say the left religious figure are trying to impose their will. I mean Jesse Jackson fights for equality, I've never seen him (I could be wrong, but have never seen him), say homosexuality should be banned in public, like the kissing, or that they can't marry or at least have a civil union. I mean, from what I've seen most religious outspoken preachers are to the right. Just about all the televangalists and such are located somewhere to the right side of the political spectrum. Most are more right then center. With that most I've seen want to take away rights, oppress certain people, and really impose their will. I don't know of any left preacher who has imposed their will on anyone. Or any issue which would do so. There might be one out there but I can't comment on something which I can't find or don't realize. But there are many out there for the religious of the right. And they are making waves that its payback time.
I never really thought things went left. I mean Clinton was president in 1992 and 1996. Other than that You're guys have been president since 1980 and will be to 2008. On that note republicans have had control of the house and senate since at least 1994. I mean even in clinton's heyday, where did we swing left? All the left ever got was one man named clinton to balance the republican power. I hardly call that swinging left.
I'd say we've been swinging right politically since vietnam, and the dems never really recovered. At that time they were the majority of the house and senate, and had the presidency.
Since then, well I'm not sure about carter's term, but since then republicans have had the power.
So lets put it in context. We went from left in the 60's, to right in the 80's. Then in the early 90's with clinton we got slightly, very very slightly left with I believe control of one of the houses and had clinton, by 94 it was basically even steven or centrist with repubs in control of house and senate and clinton to check them. And since clinton we've been to the right because the house, senate, and presidency has been republican. (or at least tied in the senate...which is pretty much control then). Now, they have the complete control by a few votes in the senate, a wide margin in the house, and the presidency where religious figures of the right want payback.
I'd say we're not swinging right, we're almost going off the charts, that is if bush enacts or throws them a few bones. Right now we're still far right because of what I mentioned before, and of the cabinet members you speak about with bush's advisors. Well it seems all the resignations were the centrist repubs, and the right wingers stayed, and most likely the right wingers will replace the centrists like colin powell. (although law of averages would state one centrist would be appointed) Still a shift to the far right. All the war hawks of the president were far right. So I mean, what have we done in the past that isn't at least the suggestion which at first came from his right wing supporters, and now what are religious side of the right wing wanting? Thats the way I see it.
But the turn the channel thing is what the religious and such don't want you to be able to do, they want to make it so you don't have to. Basically by limiting certain free speeches and behaviors in order to protect ourselves. Well for every 1 time they protect us, they have to take away 1000 rights. The law of diminishing returns. All we're really doing is taking away our rights for little to no benefit whatsoever. Remember in communism, the harsh rule was to protect society from itself until society could be on its own and the state would wither away. That's what communism was. Except all it turned out to be was a bunch of hard rule. We don't need such hard rule for protection here. Be it from different sources (terrorism, religious fanatics) versus (ideology)...but the end result in context is the same.
I know, but the religious types like that man (not all religious types of course) but dr. kennedy's type believes that you can't have faith without religion, and deep down I know I'm speculating but I still think its dead on to say he would think you were going to hell because you are not religious.
You have differences, but he'd want society to reflect his viewpoints on religion and not yours.
The funny thing is we've been centrist or right for so long, that a shift from that to far right is being perceived as a shift from left to centrist or slightly right.
I just find that unbelievable. Because as far left as john kerry was, bush and his staff was right. So its funny when you think of the way they were blasting kerry, because in all honesty, I think bush and his administration are more radical than anything kerry would have been. That just my opinion, but based on much clear headed observation.
to you 88. I've gotta go and your addition is too long to disect for now.
Mr, Kennedy may preach that I'm going to hell, But I know differently because I know my scripture. Oh yeah, they aren't my guys. I'm an old vet and my President is my President regardless. Are there things that need a bit more reiging in, at particular times? Yes, I believe so.
Anyway, later. Many of usdo practice love, tolerance, forgiveness and grace whether we agree with certain things or not. Not all preachers are evil oppressors. LOL.
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