Mosque Plan at TT site Clears Hurdle in New York - Page 15

Southpaw · August 17th, 2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

Yeah..... pretty insulting that they want to build an activity center, complete with a culinary school, basketball court and floors 12 and 13 as a worship area, only 2 blocks away from the closest corner of the old WTC complex.

It is not a Mosque, in spite of all the excrement promoted by Fox.

It will not be able to be seen from anywhere at the WTC complex.

It is in a depressed pisshole area, that is almost devoid of businesses and tourists.

The governing body of NYC said ok.

The furor about this is an incredible insult to the Muslims who worked and died in the Towers, and to the first responder Muslims, as well.

It is, in small part, truly a tempest in a teapot. In large part, it is reactionary tripe that is the antithesis of one of our core, founding principles. Pontificate all you like about how "I know it's legal, but is in right?" That position is, in fact, simply religious intolerance. If they want to build it there, and the local government says ok, and they meet all codes and regulations, then it is ok....period.... lest the principles of the Constitution be damned.... and yes, I understand that principles are not the law... but it was principles that gave us the Constitution.

Each also has the right to their opinion and to voice it. Have at it... but think of where that opinion springs from... truly.

Know that I am a strong critic of Islam... but as much as is possible for me, I support religious freedom, both in the how and in the where.

p.s. For those of you who strongly oppose "the Mosque," I know I can assume that you are also against building Catholic Churches close to schoolyards.

So, does this mean they will be paying property tax on the facility?

82CardsGrad · August 17th, 2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

So, does this mean they will be paying property tax on the facility?

I think so (see Bloomberg's endorsement...

)

UncleChris · August 17th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

I think so (see Bloomberg's endorsement...

)

Seriously, pay the same as any other kind of church does in the neighborhood.....

UncleChris · August 17th, 2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82CardsGrad

"my position" "bully him into going away"..??

Not sure why you did that? My position has been and remains as simple as this - I can understand the angst felt by those who oppose the "activity center". Not sure how that equates to "bullying"??

You failed to answer my question though....

I did answer the question. He changed the name of the place to "Plaza 45" (I think that's it) to be less obtuse/"offensive".

And I was a little unfair in saying "your position." That was meant as a plural, for all those who voice opposition based in all or some part, as a reaction from 911.

Divide Et Impera · August 17th, 2010, 12:30 PM

And as the facts continue to leak out, the more irrational the professional victimologists become:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_685071.html

Quote:

In March 2003, federal officials were being criticized for disrespecting the rights of Arab-Americans in their efforts to crack down on domestic security threats in the post-9/11 environment. Hoping to calm the growing tempers, FBI officials in New York hosted a forum on ways to deal with Muslim and Arab-Americans without exacerbating social tensions. The bureau wanted to provide agents with "a clear picture," said Kevin Donovan, director of the FBI's New York office.

Brought in to speak that morning -- at the office building located just blocks from Ground Zero -- was one of the city's most respected Muslim voices: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. The iman offered what was for him a familiar sermon to those in attendance. "Islamic extremism for the majority of Muslims is an oxymoron," he said. "It is a fundamental contradiction in terms."

-----

"Imam Feisal has participated at the Aspen Institute in Muslim-Christian-Jewish working groups looking at ways to promote greater religious tolerance," Walter Isaacson, head of The Aspen Institute told the Huffington Post. "He has consistently denounced radical Islam and terrorism, and promoted a moderate and tolerant Islam. Some of this work was done under the auspices of his own group, the Cordoba Initiative. I liked his book, and I participated in some of the meetings in 2004 or so. This is why I find it a shame that his good work is being undermined by this inflamed dispute. He is the type of leader we should be celebrating in America, not undermining."

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"We have to be very much more vocal about protecting human rights and planting the seeds of democratic regimes throughout the Arab and Muslim world," he told Katie Couric, then with NBC, during an interview in October 2001.

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Those statements, in the end, were not enough to convince the Bush administration that he was a militant. Feisal Abdul Rauf was dispatched on speaking tours by the past State Department on multiple occasions to help promote tolerance and religious diversity in the Arab and Muslim world. In 2007, he went to Morocco, the UAE, Qatar and Egypt on such missions, a State Department official confirmed to the Huffington Post.

In February 2006, meanwhile, he took part in a U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar with Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes, a close adviser to President Bush. Months later, Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote favorably about his meeting with Hughes, noting that he wanted to further the discussion with other members of the administration.

Oh my God! What a raging, intolerant radical!!!

Rivercard · August 17th, 2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

The furor about this is an incredible insult to the Muslims who worked and died in the Towers, and to the first responder Muslims, as well.

How so? And even if it were, that's quite a 1-way street point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

That position is, in fact, simply religious intolerance...

Is anyone saying Islam should be eradicated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

For those of you who strongly oppose "the Mosque," I know I can assume that you are also against building Catholic Churches close to schoolyards.

Let's revisit this question after some Cardinals issue fatwas and their followers fly a plane into that same schoolyard right as school starts, and kids are burning alive and screaming and jumping from windows. But considering the behavior of priests, that might not be a bad idea already.

82CardsGrad · August 17th, 2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

I did answer the question. He changed the name of the place to "Plaza 45" (I think that's it) to be less obtuse/"offensive".

And I was a little unfair in saying "your position." That was meant as a plural, for all those who voice opposition based in all or some part, as a reaction from 911.

Changing the name is hardly a demonstration of tolerance... but, I know that's just another debate point where each side will see it differently.

In the end, it's surprising to me (shouldn't be but it is), that people like you are screaming for tolerance toward Rauf, yet somehow can't respect, understand and tolerate the angst being felt by those who oppose a mosque in the shadows of such horror, death and destruction. Nobody is saying mosque's aren't allowed in this country, let alone NYC. There are hundreds, if not thousands of mosques scattered throughout America. Many are located throughout Manhattan and the 5 boroughs.

And before you go on another rant about how this is a tempest in a teapot, stating what we all know to be true (that al Qaeda is not Islam) and that Rauf is not al Qaeda, the reality is that for many, a mosque, or an activity center that contains a mosque, being built by a provocative Imam so close to ground zero is simply inappropriate. If you and others are filled with so much tolerance, why can't you understand this sentiment?

Rivercard · August 17th, 2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

He changed the name of the place to "Plaza 45" (I think that's it) to be less obtuse/"offensive".

Interesting..... 911/20 (highjackers) = 45

Divide Et Impera · August 17th, 2010, 12:55 PM

That would be 45.55, but it's irrelevant because it was named Park51....

Divide Et Impera · August 17th, 2010, 12:56 PM

Besides, there were only 19 hijackers....

Rivercard · August 17th, 2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divide Et Impera

Besides, there were only 19 hijackers....

If we recall, there were to be 20, but one didn't make the bus so to speak.

Divide Et Impera · August 17th, 2010, 01:00 PM

You are right about that, but that would therefore mean that he was not a hijacker because he did not commit that act. There were 19 hijackers and an additional intended hijacker. Let's call it 19.5. Deal?

Rivercard · August 17th, 2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divide Et Impera

You are right about that, but that would therefore mean that he was not a hijacker because he did not commit that act. There were 19 hijackers and an additional intended hijacker. Let's call it 19.5. Deal?

That ruins my brilliant mathmatical conspiracy theory, so I cannot make that deal unless we can come up with another formula.

Southpaw · August 17th, 2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

Seriously, pay the same as any other kind of church does in the neighborhood.....

That would be nothing? So the health club, spa, etc. are tax free?

Rivercard · August 17th, 2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyburger

So the health club, spa, etc. are tax free?

If they offer a weight loss program they should call it the "Mu-slim".