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So the comment has been made that Morality is Objective therefore it makes Christianity null and void. Based upon that observation I've decided to create a new thread just for this.
How so - and let's remember that the Laws of Logic apply - so let's not violate any of them during our discussion. Also, it's been very nice to have the civil dialogue that we've been engaged in up til now, I suspect that we'll keep that level of professionalism amongst ourselves.
I'd like some justification of how Morality makes Christianity null and void or not.
Shawn
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"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
I think that we all can agree that to enslave another human is immoral. Does that mean that every person throughout history that owned a slave was immoral? Didn't King David/Solomon and the other Israelites own slaves? Were they all immoral?
What you deem moral, here in the United States, isn't necessarily what is moral in Afghanistan. That's inarguable.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Krangthebrain It's based on the social contract.
What you deem moral, here in the United States, isn't necessarily what is moral in Afghanistan. That's inarguable.
That was the entire argument against having a world Tribunal during the Nuremberg trials.
If this is true then what the Nazi's did was not immoral because it fight within their government and social structure and no other country had a right to impose it's moral values on them.
That's a bunch of crap and that's just a small reason as to why I don't believe that Morality is Subjective.
Shawn
__________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
Originally posted by FischerKing That was the entire argument against having a world Tribunal during the Nuremberg trials.
If this is true then what the Nazi's did was not immoral because it fight within their government and social structure and no other country had a right to impose it's moral values on them.
That's a bunch of crap and that's just a small reason as to why I don't believe that Morality is Subjective.
Shawn
But an international tribunal could have it's OWN social contract with the members. So in essence, what the Nazis did was still wrong.
And that isn't a load of crap.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by FischerKing That was the entire argument against having a world Tribunal during the Nuremberg trials.
If this is true then what the Nazi's did was not immoral because it fight within their government and social structure and no other country had a right to impose it's moral values on them.
That's a bunch of crap and that's just a small reason as to why I don't believe that Morality is Subjective.
Shawn
But if the Nazi's didn't deem it immoral....
BTW, mostly they didn't deem it immoral and actually thought they were doing the world a favor. See, just because we claim what they did is immoral, that doesn;t mean it is to them therefore what Krang said is absolutely correct.
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Originally posted by Krangthebrain But an international tribunal could have it's OWN social contract with the members. So in essence, what the Nazis did was still wrong.
And that isn't a load of crap.
But what are those standards based on? Are they just capricous?
Shawn
__________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."
"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21
"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface
Originally posted by FischerKing But what are those standards based on? Are they just capricous?
Shawn
No. It's base on International law.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
from me. I view morals as the written and unwritten rules of conduct in any given society. Different states in ancient Greece, and various philosophers of the day had slightly different rules, but the field of morals has been with us since the first Chinese emperors. I think it's ridiculous for any religion to claim a monopoly on morals. All the warmaking, witchburning, and jew scapegoating make any christian claim to hold the high ground on morality ridiculous from the get-go. Same for the Muslims.
Personally, I believe that it's WRONG for me to: steal from others unless it's life or death, it's wrong for me to cheat on my girlfriend, though i might anyway. It's wrong to bully the weak. It's wrong to tell lies about others. It's wrong if I don't help my family. Some of these things can be found in the 10 commandments, but HELL - most of it's common sense! Irrespective of any imaginary "god"!!!
If I was into pornography, I would partake; I get drunk sometimes, I have sex outside of marriage - some would call me immoral. Too bad, bluenoses
Originally posted by FischerKing And what's International Law based on?
The point is that it's based upon something? Is that something subjective or objective?
Shawn
Good point....
But nations don't always agree on international law....meaning it is still subjective.
Basically, I think some things ARE objective, while others ARE subjective.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
Originally posted by Shane H While interesting. This debate is as subjective as can be. Really nobody will ever agree on the same thing especially morals!
I totally agree, but I can't stand it when people say that morals are absolute.
Depending on your culture (social contract), morals are very different. Christians can believe they are right, but should not press their moral agenda on me. I don't agree with all of their moral beliefs, and I should be allowed to live freely as long as I don't harm them.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
... and fischers's comment on the other thread about 2 different culture's morality in conflict with only 1 being "right" illustrates the ultimate in morality (per Nietzche) - MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.
Whoever wins the war is "right". There are no war crimes trials for the victor, only the vanqhuished. Any talk of an objective morality runs head first into the reality of human history thus far.
Being smug in your cocoon doesn't make you right.
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