That's why some of us, even those like myself who see the benefits of socialized medicine insist on upgrading our governments powers of administration before handing it a gigantic portion of the economy.
That's why this current debate is so infuriating, liberals should be marching on Obama for the sell out job he's doing on this.
Conservatives need to catch a clue too, they should be working on solutions to reform government so that when we do allow socialisim we do it right, as in minimal overhead, minimal BS, watch it like a hawk.
That's the reality of what we're talking about, just giving this current system taxpayer money makes me want to vomit.
I have heard more and more talk from the right referencing the Wyden-Bennett Health Reform Plan:
__________________
"Dying for something is easy because it is associated with glory. Living for something is the hard thing. Living for something extends beyond fashion, glory, or recognition. We live for what we believe."
— Donald Miller
Nidan, can you please post links so people can understand your premise? I have never heard a GOP senator say that Government Health Care will be better and cheaper, only that it will move private insurance to a disadvantage since it would give employers an incentive to ditch it. If one did, I would like to see the context.
As well as the Gov Insurance Plan would not have to worry about making a profit like private companies. The Gov will have the tax payers to keep backing them up while they undercut every other private h/c plan out there. Eventually, people will slowly move to the Gov plan and there will not be enough people in the private plans to keep them sustainable.
In the end, we will all be in a single payer system. But, Nidan, I think you are all for that single payer system.
__________________
Yeah, Stormy's probably on to something. - Rivercard
Sense MAKER!!!
Blasphemer!!!
Burn him!!!!
He speaks in tongues of logic and common sense, this troubles us and must be dealt with swiftly. - conraddobler
As well as the Gov Insurance Plan would not have to worry about making a profit like private companies. The Gov will have the tax payers to keep backing them up while they undercut every other private h/c plan out there.
It will be a great day when health insurers will need to adapt or die IMHO.
It will be a great day when health insurers will need to adapt or die IMHO.
Maybe something that should be looked into. We need to identify the problems and then propose solutions. I wonder if they ever went through a basic problem identification exercise.
__________________
Yeah, Stormy's probably on to something. - Rivercard
Sense MAKER!!!
Blasphemer!!!
Burn him!!!!
He speaks in tongues of logic and common sense, this troubles us and must be dealt with swiftly. - conraddobler
Maybe something that should be looked into. We need to identify the problems and then propose solutions. I wonder if they ever went through a basic problem identification exercise.
Allowing the public to sidestep paying the profit margins enjoyed by insurance companies while also shifting the power to dictate treatments elsewhere is a pretty effective solution. Even critics like yourself confess that the efficiencies of a government option would force the insurance industry to reinvent itself.
But, Nidan, I think you are all for that single payer system.
Almost anything is better than the current situation.
For example [per NPR radio so don't ask for a link] but I have heard much the same before. By about 2025 we will be spending about 25% of GNP on healthcare if the current trends are not reversed ... 25% good grief.
And this is coming from a person that owns his own business who pays both sides of the healthcare costs. Red, change is coming to your comfortable world, you will see your costs go up and the benifts go dwon.
There is a simple fact, standing pat is not an option as the ground you are standing on is sliding into the river.
Almost anything is better than the current situation.
For example [per NPR radio so don't ask for a link] but I have heard much the same before. By about 2025 we will be spending about 25% of GNP on healthcare if the current trends are not reversed ... 25% good grief.
And this is coming from a person that owns his own business who pays both sides of the healthcare costs. Red, change is coming to your comfortable world, you will see your costs go up and the benifts go dwon.
There is a simple fact, standing pat is not an option as the ground you are standing on is sliding into the river.
I do agree that something needs to be done. We need to reform the system. Fix what is broken. Not turn it all upside down.
BTW....I do have a comfortable world. I built it. It suits me just fine. Nothing wrong with that. I maintain it and I share it. What I dont like is a bunch of people telling me I cant have my life the way I want it.
I live in a desert. I would not mind wadding in a river now and then. As long as it is my river.
__________________
Yeah, Stormy's probably on to something. - Rivercard
Sense MAKER!!!
Blasphemer!!!
Burn him!!!!
He speaks in tongues of logic and common sense, this troubles us and must be dealt with swiftly. - conraddobler
All the GOP is doing is say NO and hoping to score points
Here's a simple one, if you can't afford or choose not to insure yourself then live with it. If you get to the point that the highest level of health care is something you choose to participate in then have at it.
The problem is we never let the system ride on it's own merits 100%. We subsidize endlessly and that screws up the system.
Insurers need people to participate, doctors need patients that can pay, the people need health care. Stop putting up false floors on the pay they can expect and let the market decide what a heart transplant costs. If the number of people willing to pay for insurance goes down they will lower the price. If there are no insurers willing to pay 5 grand a day for a hospital room because they don't have people willing to pay for it the hospital has to drop their rate. That's how all of this is supposed to work but the government and those of you that want something for free and elect officials promising to give it to you mess it up. And therefore put the rest of us in a worse position.
People die every day, some from huge health problems others from small ones that they couldn't afford to get fixed. That is a fact of life. Nobody deserves to have the best of care under all circumstances and not even the government can provide that for everyone anyway.
If you want health care fixed end all government subsidization and return the peoples money to decide what they want to do with it.
Can anyone who is Hell bent set against single payer, please explain to me why it is such an evil concept? Maybe I am missing something. I really like the concept of not laying down a chunk of healthcare money to a private sector administrative body whose sole goal is to take their undeserved chunk of the pie and use those funds to enrich their needless coffers.
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
Speaking to the worry about a public option killing the natural competition of private insurance free markets. Arkansas BC&BS has a 75% market share of health insurance coverage in the state.
From 2000 to 2007 the average annual combined premium for employers and employees rose 66 percent, from $6,355 to $10,534.10.
__________________
Constantly making conclusive and hyperbolic claims doesn't make you a dissident, it makes you an easily used tool.
Location: Winning Friends and Influencing the People in My Head
Posts: 4,431
I'm not hell bent against it. I just don't want the current government provided program I have now.
As I've stated before it's underfunded, prisoners get more spending on their healthcare per capita, and the it's pretty much a BS program anyway.
Granted if the government started offering a program for everybody, I'm sure some of those items would be cleaned up because then it'd be more than just Native Americans getting it.
I would opt out of my employer program and choose a single payer one if done right.
Can anyone who is Hell bent set against single payer, please explain to me why it is such an evil concept? Maybe I am missing something. I really like the concept of not laying down a chunk of healthcare money to a private sector administrative body whose sole goal is to take their undeserved chunk of the pie and use those funds to enrich their needless coffers.
The worry is that you will have some faceless buerocrat pull the plug on you or your family when you need it most, by essentially saying that "This treatment is too much, we're not going to provide it anymore."
Or, another way of putting it - people are afraid of putting that kind of power in the hands of the government.
They're concerned that the quality of care will go down (I put a brief post on that earlier), and costs and wait time will go up.
That's my understanding, from someone who isn't hell bent on hating the single payer system.
The worry is that you will have some faceless buerocrat pull the plug on you or your family when you need it most, by essentially saying that "This treatment is too much, we're not going to provide it anymore."
Or, another way of putting it - people are afraid of putting that kind of power in the hands of the government.
They're concerned that the quality of care will go down (I put a brief post on that earlier), and costs and wait time will go up.
That's my understanding, from someone who isn't hell bent on hating the single payer system.
In lieu of Hell benters opinions, are these fears founded or not?
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
Linear Mode
