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I suppose the argument is they weren't saving Bear Stearns, they were saving the system. In my mind I had the image Joe Lewis calling in every favor on Wall Street and the U.S. Treasury to bail out his substantial investment. Surely a man of his power and wealth has compromising pictures of the entire Bush family.
First, why do you say "free-marketers" like anyone in favor of a free market is dilluded?
Second, I'm NOT in favor of the bailout. The market needs to correct itself. The more the government meddles, the more drawn out the recession is going to be, and the deeper the bottom. We need to let the economy find it's own bottom and correct itself from there.
JMHO.
__________________ America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.
First, why do you say "free-marketers" like anyone in favor of a free market is dilluded?
Second, I'm NOT in favor of the bailout. The market needs to correct itself. The more the government meddles, the more drawn out the recession is going to be, and the deeper the bottom. We need to let the economy find it's own bottom and correct itself from there.
I heard a fragment of interview today where some finance guy said basically this has everyone right on the ledge, and no one actually knows WHAT this means. He said there's something like 75 trillion dollars (unaccounted for - that's my term, but it was like no one knows exactly where it's held or invested and who is in control, if anyone) and that right now the idea is to do anything necessary to try to stop the speeding train before it runs out of track -- that the level of sheer terror in financial centers is unprecedented (in recent memory).
Given how IRRational and psychologically driven the markets are, it sounded quite ominous.
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oderint dum metuant (Latin for 'let them hate, so long as they fear').
Well, in truth I'm actually not a total hawk, but I'm not a dove either -- I'm more like an angry pigeon flying over the political arena after a really big meal. -Abba Gav
First, why do you say "free-marketers" like anyone in favor of a free market is dilluded?
Second, I'm NOT in favor of the bailout. The market needs to correct itself. The more the government meddles, the more drawn out the recession is going to be, and the deeper the bottom. We need to let the economy find it's own bottom and correct itself from there.
JMHO.
Relax, I was looking for a lighther, more catchy way to put the phrase.
First, why do you say "free-marketers" like anyone in favor of a free market is dilluded?
Second, I'm NOT in favor of the bailout. The market needs to correct itself. The more the government meddles, the more drawn out the recession is going to be, and the deeper the bottom. We need to let the economy find it's own bottom and correct itself from there.
JMHO.
I agree. The market needs to adjust. It is a natural cycle (like global warming...opps... ).
Really...my house went up astronomically. Now it is down. So what... It needs to correct. My house was not worth it when it was at it's peak IMO.
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The greatest lies are told before a marriage, after a hunt and during an election - Count Bismark
Just thinking about how Bushco wants to put your Social Security funds into this same market, with these same thieves. Also thinking about the refusal to bail out storm survivors, but the no hesitation plan to buy some time for the millionaire's club. The Ponzi scheme just found a new sucker is what actually comes to mind. Funding debt with debt.
BTW, I posted an article in another thread which is quite relevant to this question. Might want to check it out.
P. S. Two friends of mine told me of their recent Bears Stearns plight yesterday. They retired early from the music industry on their success and turned over their earnings to a broker at Bear Stearns about ten years ago. They have lived quite comfortably in the interim. He called yesterday to tell them, they might have to go back to work. I have mixed emotions on this one. I like them , but deplore the system.
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In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
P. S. Two friends of mine told me of their recent Bears Stearns plight yesterday. They retired early from the music industry on their success and turned over their earnings to a broker at Bear Stearns about ten years ago. They have lived quite comfortably in the interim. He called yesterday to tell them, they might have to go back to work. I have mixed emotions on this one. I like them , but deplore the system.
Ugh. Sucks for your friends. This should go down as big a scam as Enron and I wonder if there is any complicity/collusion (ie, liability) by Chase. While cops chase nickel and dime crooks, we've got the real big time hoods with dump trucks full of money driving out the back gate....
What happened at Bear is even worse than you might imagine, they were going BK and to save the system they saved Bear but even in BK they'd have been worth about 10$ a share or so just on their building but a big reason they couldn't go BK was if they did they'd of had to pay back their bonuses since it would of been construed as preferential treatment of creditors to pay a large bonus out and then BK that soon.
So the shareholders got nuked even worse than they had to to save someone's bonus.
There will be furious lawsuits on this one and it's most definitely not the end of this.
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At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
What happened at Bear is even worse than you might imagine, they were going BK and to save the system they saved Bear but even in BK they'd have been worth about 10$ a share or so just on their building but a big reason they couldn't go BK was if they did they'd of had to pay back their bonuses since it would of been construed as preferential treatment of creditors to pay a large bonus out and then BK that soon.
So the shareholders got nuked even worse than they had to to save someone's bonus.
There will be furious lawsuits on this one and it's most definitely not the end of this.
That's why the stock is now trading north of 2$'s a share. It was definitely a good play today .
I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge buying spree on this stock, with the big guys looking to see if there can be enough accumulated to sway the upcoming stockholder fight.
Oh, and as a "free-market" guy, here is my stance; while I philosophically do not agree with the Fed's move, from a pragmatic standpoint it was better than letting the entire US financial structure go down in a huge ball of flames.
JTS
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(Thank you very much, Ladies and Germs; I'll be here through Saturday night, don't forget to tip your waitresses on the way out!)
That's why the stock is now trading north of 2$'s a share. It was definitely a good play today .
I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge buying spree on this stock, with the big guys looking to see if there can be enough accumulated to sway the upcoming stockholder fight.
Oh, and as a "free-market" guy, here is my stance; while I philosophically do not agree with the Fed's move, from a pragmatic standpoint it was better than letting the entire US financial structure go down in a huge ball of flames.
JTS
In the end, all this move did was line the pockets of the predators at Bear Stearns while enabling another financial institution to buy them out on the cheap... They saved their asses and nobody else. If you are a true "free market" guy, the belief would be to let them die and another one will fill their space. Screw corporate bailouts, they should get the same sympathy as regular folks who play the stock market and lose.
These are supposed to be the most sophiticated financial minds on the planet and are given more slack to grift America for their greed and failings. This has not saved the system; it has reinforced America as the financial playground for these well connected, high rolling, snake oil salesmen!
I would like to know your take on this (what seems to me) ridiculous bailout.
And if you are in favor of free market and are okay with the bailout, how does that mesh with its principals?
I would recommend to send the following comment to your represantative or senator thru email . Please feel free to review/change its content or copy past as it is . List of the represantative or senator can be found under the following web site http://directory.usayfoundation.org/ and below is my take on this
Subject: Recent bailout of failed Bear Stearn investment bank by tax payer money thru FED and FED accepting mortgage based security as a collateral for lending from financial institution who own them.
Bear Stearns and potentially other financial institution has failed by investing heavily on mortgage based security which was a mistake, could not manage their risk and therefore should face the consequences of their failure. There are many business and people who fail not only because of their mistake but market condition beyond their control and Fed does not save them thru tax payer money why would we as a citizen trying to be honest and correct we should finance failed financial institution with our taxes while in a good year those executives of those financial institution are making tons of money. If the name of the rule is free market it is not acceptable to save any financial institution who did the wrong thing nor any person who took loan that he or she can not effort to pay such as mortgage. At the end of the day such decision is leading to the punishment of innocent people at the expense of financing wrong people/institution for their wrong decision. If the whole financial system is in risk as a justification solution is not to save collective mistake maker but overhaul of the financial system to allow isolation of the risk. I would appreciate if you can let us know your view and any action you may have on that issue because I believe this is a very serious mistake to bailout wrong decision maker at the expense of innocent person.
Last edited by atlantis60; March 27th, 2008 at 11:47 AM.
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