dreamcastrocks

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/.../spanking_bill

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A Democratic lawmaker has abandoned her heavily ridiculed campaign to make spanking a crime, acknowledging that the idea would get whacked even in California's sometimes whimsical Legislature.

Instead, San Francisco Bay area Assemblywoman Sally Lieber introduced a more narrow bill on Thursday she said would help district attorneys more easily prosecute parents who cross the line from punishment into physical abuse.

Lieber is seeking to classify a laundry list of physical acts against young children, including hitting with a belt, switch or stick, as unjustifiable and grounds for prosecution, probation or a parental time-out — a class on nonviolent parenting.

Spanking a child on the buttocks — even to the point of injury — will remain legal in California, Lieber said.

"Clearly, I take exception with that part of the law, but the votes are simply not there" to change it, Lieber said, facing a bank of eight television cameras and the largest media spotlight the soft-spoken Democrat has ever encountered.

Some conservatives criticized Lieber's amended bill as no better than the idea she floated weeks ago.

Assemblyman Chuck Devore, an Irvine Republican, said the wording might be too specific, including objects such as belts but not others that could be used to strike children. He said the bill also could lead to parents being improperly prosecuted.

"Are we in danger of unintended consequences where loving parents might have their children taken away from them and we cause more harm than good?" he said.

Devore said input from police officers and prosecutors will be crucial.

Until last month, Lieber was perhaps best known for authoring the state's minimum-wage increase.

Lieber, who has no children, attracted nationwide attention after she pledged to introduce an anti-spanking bill to protect children from violence. Her idea was even the subject of a "Saturday Night Live" parody.

Conservative and family values groups lashed out at her proposal, charging that criminalizing spanking epitomized overbearing "nanny" government.

If passed, it would classify most physical harm to children as unjustified. That would reverse the current principle under which judges and juries are asked to decide whether physical abuse that begins as discipline is justified.

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dreamcastrocks

Well, the title is a bit misleading. There was a bill in CA to make spanking a crime, can a mod edit the title?

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Russ Smith

Clearly her parents didn't discipline her enough as a child.

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dreamcastrocks

Not surprising that she does not have any children at home either.

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Rivercard

I'm not crazy about parents using belts and such either.

Russ Smith

That was really the main source of complaint people had with her bill here. Everyone said it's very easy for someone who has no kids, to draft a bill like this.

I don't agree with nailing someone with a belt or a baseball bat, but spanking I find OK if done within reason.

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Rivercard

That's pretty lame. Theoretically she's repesenting all the people in her district - not herself.

CardLogic

I think that she is misrepresenting the majority of them.

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Rivercard

True. That may be the case, but that wasnt the reason cited.

It's a toughie. There is a fine line between discipline and abuse.

Russ Smith

I think the idea is if she has no kids, she has no point of reference?

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Russ Smith

Right and I think the point was many people felt it was impossible for someoen without kids to really understand that fine line.

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Rivercard

That's not really fair though. That's like saying if you haven't been in the military you can't have an opinion about the war.

AzCards21

I can't remember if you have kids or not River, but I can gaurantee there is no amount of training or observation that can prepare you for the experience.

KloD

Then perhaps she's the right type of person to look at this, not her maybe, but I doubt parents that hit their children would ever define their behavior as abuse, no matter the level of violence involved. So maybe someone who doesn't have a bias or "point of reference" is better suited to define that line.

KloD

I don't doubt what you say is very true (I'll be finding out starting in a few months), but would it take away a parents arsenal if hitting with any foreign object or punching...I don't know... were deemed as going to far?