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Old May 4th, 2012, 01:34 PM   #91
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BTW all this labeling and finger-pointing is just a human reaction to an unspeakable tragedy. If we can label things, we can give them reason. If we can find a reason, we can process it. I think that's what we are all doing right now, helping each other find meaning in all this.

And by the looks of things, our little community is starting to come to the conclusion that there is no rhyme or reason or for this tragedy, no matter how hard we look for one. But that doesn't mean we won't stop looking.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #92
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Well, those folks you mention are one-off singular crazy people (and judging by your descriptions, only Ted's actions appear related to political views). Right-wing militia groups are something different and do indeed create dangerous breeding grounds of support for hateful action. They should not be ignored or simply compared to singular crazy people. That is head in the sand logic.
I dunno. How many people did Lenin/Stalin kill just to stay in power?

Your timeline into politically-motivated homicidal/genocidal craziness is too small a sample. You're just looking at the most organized of the bunch, which would be the ******s at NSM. In the history of humanity, when conventional/civilized politics fail A's ability to get B to do what B would not otherwise do, violence quite often ensues. This is why ANY philosophy attached to some idea of cosmic manifest destiny should scare the hell out of all of us.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #93
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I don't think anarchists have a wing. They are equidistant from libertarians, who want small (or are anti) government, and socialism which is anti-capitalist. I am not really sure where they fit in the spectrum. I think Matt's previous post of the circle is a good place to stick them.
Anarchy is recognized as a temporary state, not a formal one. It cannot be sustained. Anarchy comes and quickly dissipates because people quickly form groups as a form of survival and safety. The closest thing to anarchy is Ethiopia, but there's clearly an organizational structure there -- or structures -- albeit violent, factioned ones. The reason anarchy is listed in the middle of that chart is because it generally organizes into one of the structures on the perimeter ... usually to the left, and not the right.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #94
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No one should get a pass, like the extreme right wing of the Republican party that controls Arizona now, with associating with them.

For god's sake - JT Ready was buddies with the man that a couple years ago RAN THE ****ING STATE.

This is today's Arizona Republican Party. This is who is in charge

This is who is passing loony bill after loony bill.

If you can not, or are unwilling to pull your head outta the sand to see this, then I really weep for our country.
The Arizona GOP is definitely out of its mind, but its connections to these groups is more of a blindspot, IMO, than a holistic agreement on worldview. They often speak the same language, which allows NSM to blend in with the GOP on occasion.

I have no less criticism for the Arizona GOP for their failure to recognize this relationship. At best, it's shameful naivete' from a group that claims to have the best understanding of how the world works. The Arizona GOP needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #95
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The Arizona GOP is definitely out of its mind, but its connections to these groups is more of a blindspot, IMO, than a holistic agreement on worldview. They often speak the same language, which allows NSM to blend in with the GOP on occasion.

I have no less criticism for the Arizona GOP for their failure to recognize this relationship. At best, it's shameful naivete' from a group that claims to have the best understanding of how the world works. The Arizona GOP needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch.
THIS!

And truthfully, with all too rare exceptions, the broader GOP party itself needs to be rebuilt. Of course, I feel the same about the Democratic Party as well... but, I guess that's an entire separate topic/thread...
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Old May 4th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #96
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Exclusive FBI tells 12 News, neo-Nazi J.T. Ready was under a criminal domestic terrorism investigation at the time of his death.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #97
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Exclusive FBI tells 12 News, neo-Nazi J.T. Ready was under a criminal domestic terrorism investigation at the time of his death.
I keep hearing things like this (that he was being "watched"... "investigated"...), yet, there he was sitting on a mountain of military grade ammo... How does this happen with someone who is supposedly being watched/investigated??
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Old May 4th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #98
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I keep hearing things like this (that he was being "watched"... "investigated"...), yet, there he was sitting on a mountain of military grade ammo... How does this happen with someone who is supposedly being watched/investigated??
He was probably supplied by operatives to see where and what he was going to do with it.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 03:05 PM   #99
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He was probably supplied by operatives to see where and what he was going to do with it.

Hmmm.... guess that's possible and I really hope that's the case. Otherwise, I have serious questions about him being watched/investigated...
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Old May 4th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #100
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Hmmm.... guess that's possible and I really hope that's the case. Otherwise, I have serious questions about him being watched/investigated...
He was not accepted by national NSM leaders. They viewed him as a whacko, which is saying something. I'm certain the concern that he was really coming off the hinges and starting his own new thing on the border. Something that included a full compliment of military-grade explosives. He's the type of guy that could start a literal war between U.S/Mexico.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 03:17 PM   #101
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Lemons is speculating he could have become the next Tim McVeigh. I don't always agree with him, but on this I think he's on the right track.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bas...sem.php?page=2
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Old May 4th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #102
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Lemons is speculating he could have become the next Tim McVeigh. I don't always agree with him, but on this I think he's on the right track.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bas...sem.php?page=2
Not hard to see that at all...
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Old May 5th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #103
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No - he LIVED there...
Yep. Your right. I thought that was his friends house who went with him on patrols.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 09:30 AM   #104
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I have no idea what this means.
Makes sense to me
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Old May 5th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #105
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He switched to run as a Democrat SOLOLY because he felt it would be an easier path to office.

He wanted to run as an independent first, but it is harder to qualify for the ballot.

He then looked at the Republican field, and then didn't think he could win the primary.

He defaulted to the Democratic Primary.
So, he only associated with whatever party he thought would further his whatever. So, we shouldn't paint the larger party with his actions. Be it Rep, Dem or Indy. Like Matt said...crazy doesn't have political borders.
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