FischerKing

Right - that was sort of my point. If something is considered "good" then it must have met a certain standard. If that standard is not objective then things that we consider "good" don't actually exist. Therefore the standard is objective - outside and above us. We have certain things that we wish to strain towards and goodness is one of them. Goodness, rightness, wrongness, etc. are all things that are measured by something outside us. We attempt to put that standard into laws that we understand, but even that fails and is an imperfect system (ie the OJ Simpson Case). So when our interpretation fails we set out to redefine the law, etc. But the law just doesn't spring from out of nothing, it's always trying to define some moral and/or ethical higher law that pre-existed it. Sort of how science attempts to define the physical world. The world existed before science not because of it.

Shawn

__________________


"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."

"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21

"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface

Krangthebrain

Are you a believer in dualism?

I believe in Science, but I also do believe we have spirits and imo, evolution was guided towards us. If there is a sentient God, he definitely "fooled around" with the Earth for a while until he created intelligent creatures that he could monitor.

One of the biggest misunderstandings among Christian is the meaning of us being created in God's image. Many believe that God "looks" like us, but it really means that we think like God and we understand like him (albeit on a much lower level than him).

A problem that I have with the Bible is the fact that it's written by man. Everything in this world is tainted by man, whether you admit it or not. Muslims always deny that the Koran is tainted, but it has been historically documented that it has been changed to suit the needs of whoever was in power at the time. I tried to read mostly the teachings of Jesus because I've always felt his message was the important.

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

Krangthebrain

I know you are gone but I have to comment on this:

If my views are wrong, what have I risked...... nothing. I would be miserable sitting around angels, I love the carnal pleasures of mankind!

If your views are wrong, what have you risked..... a lifetime on Earth being wrong, and lost spiritually.

And yes that was a cheap shot....you essentially said " Yer goin' to hell ." Which where I come from is not very nice!

But I forgive you! I do live my life essentially under the Judeo Christian values, and forgiveness and fraternity is something that I value.

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

FischerKing

No, I'm not a believer in Dualism. I think only God is in control yet Satan interfers - I don't believe that the world is co-controlled by them.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean exactly when you say that "evolution was guided towards us". I might need some help with that idea.

You are correct about the image of God. I view God as a loving, intelligent, merciful and creative force. There are so many other ways in which to describe him and I think it's in those ways that we are like him. I think we are most like him when we are pursuing those things as well. Being a creative person when I write music or poetry I experience some imperfect aspect of that "image" of God in me. I only say imperfect because I believe since the Fall of man the "man in God's image" has been tainted. Adam was created in the image of God - since the Fall we have been born in the image of Adam - if that makes any sense. We carry that imperfect heredity with us, hence Christ being born of a Virgin - he wasn't conceived like normal man and therefore he wasn't passed on the heredity of Adam - but now I think I'm getting too indepth in the doctrine...I digress.

Everything in the world is tainted by man - that's an interesting statement that I'll have to give some serious thought to. As far as scripture goes I might have to argue against that idea. Man is corrupt and does have an agenda - but when the authors of the different books wrote, they were guided by the Holy Spirit - man was just a tool for the Spirit of God to write down His legacy. Much like a person using a word processor as it's tool - the "authors" of the Bible were tools used by the ultimate Author - the Holy Spirit.

I find it amazing that 40 different authors over a span of nearly 1500 years wrote a seamless story. I know people say that there are contridictions - but I don't find any. People who espouse that idea have no idea how to properly read or comprehend what they are reading because they continually take words and phrases out of their intended context. I can do the exact same thing and on Sunday morning preach a sermon that suicide is okay and that God wants all of his followers to participate in it just by taking passages out of context. It's a very difficult thing to do. What is difficult is keeping it all in perspective and reading it how it is supposed to be read.

One of the very first rules you learn when it comes to Biblical Interpretation is that the Bible cannot contridict itself - so if you come across a certain passage that says one thing and yet read something that seems the opposite somewhere else - then perhaps your understanding is off. Here is an example:

Proverbs 3:13
Blessed is the man who finds wisdom,
the man who gains understanding

as opposed to I Corinthians 1:19
For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

So, are these contridictary? On the surface they appear so, but if you were to go back and read the entire passage in it's context and not just one scripture pulled from one place you will see that the Proverbs passage is talking about the commands and wisdom of God while the I Corinthians passage is speaking about the wisdom and intelligence that is man-made (ie Philosophical wisdom) of the Greeks. So now we are talking about two different types of wisdom - man's wisdom verses God's wisdom - which man calls foolishness.

Well, I've gone on far too long with this. This is just one example of the many ones that are out there. Now I'm not sure if you'll be more confused or less.

Shawn

__________________


"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."

"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21

"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface

Krangthebrain

Dualism is the concept (Philosophy) that everything is organized into two distinctive yet interwined states of existance: the material and the nonmaterial. You being a Christian, you almost have to believe in a nonmaterial plane. Spirit's exist on the nonmaterial plane, while our physical bodies exist on the material.

Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and many other philosophers believed in dualism, as did Einstein. The Christian philosophers, Augustine and Thomas Aquinas also did.

For me, Adam and Eve was a parable to explain that we must follow God's will or suffer the consequences. And that yes we are imperfect, and by nature will defy the will of God.

As far as the Bible goes, I'm not harping on contradictions, and I fully understand that any passage has have context for the true meaning to be told. I'm more concerned with the writers and their agendas....I don't believe it is the fully inspired word of God. That's just my belief, and I will believe that as long as men hate one another and oppress one another.

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

FischerKing

Dualism (philosophical) is thought and matter. Dualism (theological) is good vs. evil or God vs. Satan yet co-controlling the world.

Even Christ, in his teaching, mentioned certain Old Testament writings as being historical fact. He also gave creedence to Moses' writings as being authentic. So Christ mentioning certain events as historical events - doesn't that take the parable argument out of it?

Shawn

__________________


"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."

"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21

"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface

Krangthebrain

Well if Jesus is human, then he is allowed to not fully know that it was all parables.

I believe, that if Jesus is not a human his story of righteousness is even greater. Human's aren't naturally so altruistic, yet Jesus lived his entire life that way.

It doesn't matter if he was the son of god or not, or even if the religion is real or not. His teachings still work to make us all better, and to me that's his real legacy.

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

KingofCards

__________________
"Let the rabbits wear glasses."