SUTTILL

Republcans and Democrats should agree that decreasing our dependency on foreign oil and decreasing pollution are good things. Why the heck isn't there a grass roots movement to push for these cars discussed in the following article???

Eco-friendly cars on display

By TERENCE CHEA
The Associated Press

SONOMA, Calif. — The world’s major automakers gathered in California this week to show off more than 100 vehicles powered by electric motors, hybrid engines, hydrogen fuel cells and other eco-friendly technologies aimed at reducing pollution and boosting fuel economy.

Grabbing much attention was a General Motors Corp. car called Hy-wire, which puts fuel cell technology in a futuristic body, and lacks foot pedals, steering wheel or even an engine.

Automakers say fuel cells could reach the market within a decade and eventually eliminate today’s internal combustion engine as a source of air pollution.

"The industry is moving toward cleaner, lower emission vehicles," said Ron Musgnug, project leader for the Michelin-sponsored media event, known as Challenge Bibendum. "Many alternatives for the consumer will be available as the industry continues its progress."

But environmentalists say the auto show, complete with test-drive opportunities at Sonoma’s Infineon Raceway just north of San Francisco, clouds the pollution debate. While encouraged by the long- term potential of these next-generation technologies, they complain that automakers keep opposing higher fuel efficiency standards — and keep selling gas-guzzling SUVs.

"The auto companies are using these long-term solutions like hydrogen fuel cells to distract us from these near-term options," said Roland Hwang, a vehicle-technology expert at the Natural Resources Defense Council.

"If the auto industry was serious about reducing our petroleum dependency, it would support raising fuel efficiency standards at the national level," Hwang added.

Carmakers are investing billions of dollars to develop more eco-friendly vehicles to meet stricter standards on auto emissions and fuel efficiency. But so far only hybrid cars, which combine battery power and the internal combustion engine, have reached the market, and environmentalists are impatient for more consumer choices.

"There will be a market for this technology, but it’s still in its infancy stages," assures Mike Wall, an automobile analyst at CSM Worldwide in Farmington Hills, Mich.

Toyota and Honda introduced the first hybrid cars three years ago, but the market is still small because hybrids are relatively expensive and don’t perform as well as conventional cars. The hybrid’s cost outweighs savings from better mileage, Wall said.

"Fuel economy is not a driving factor for most consumers right now," Wall said. "What’s selling is higher horsepower."

This week’s event demonstrates the wide spectrum of alternative fuel technology under development.

Several carmakers exhibited diesel-powered cars that are popular in Europe but have yet to break into the U.S. market outside commercial vehicles.

"People have this long-lasting impression of dirty, stinky diesel — black smoke and a lot of noise," said Reg Modlin, director of environmental and energy planning at DaimlerChrysler. "We’ve made great strides with diesel in the last few years. We think the market will grow over time."

Modlin said diesel engines consume 30 percent less fuel than internal combustion engines, release fewer emissions and "feel great to great drive."

DaimlerChrysler featured several prototypes of diesel-powered vehicles, including cars that run on "bio-diesel," which combines diesel fuel with renewable resources such as corn. Next year, the company plans to introduce diesel-powered versions of its Jeep Cherokee and Mercedes Benz.

Almost all carmakers believe hydrogen fuel cells will power the cars of tomorrow. Fuel cells generate electricity from a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen and only release water as waste.

General Motors is perhaps most bullish on fuel cells. The Detroit-based company has invested $1 billion and spends more than a quarter of its annual research budget on fuel cell development, said Scott Fosgard, General Motors’ communications director.

for advanced technology vehicles.

"Our long-term vision is that the country will move toward a hydrogen economy, and fuel cells will steadily become the fuel of choice," Fosgard said.

While most car makers believe fuel cells won’t hit the mainstream market for 15 to 20 years, General Motors wants to start selling fuel cell vehicles by 2010, Fosgard said. He said fuel cells are "taking the automobile out of the environmental debate."

Asked why General Motors opposes raising fuel efficiency standards, Fosgard said the company doesn’t have the money to develop fuel cells and more efficient gas-powered cars at the same time.

"As big as car companies are, there’s a finite amount of resources," Fosgard said. "We don’t have the resources to do both."

Chris_Sanders

Amen to that!

I look forward to the day we can tell OPEC and the United Arab Emirates to shove it.

CardinalMike

"But environmentalists say the auto show, complete with test-drive opportunities at Sonoma’s Infineon Raceway just north of San Francisco, clouds the pollution debate. While encouraged by the long- term potential of these next-generation technologies, they complain that automakers keep opposing higher fuel efficiency standards — and keep selling gas-guzzling SUVs."

Guess these "environmentalists" never took Econ 101 or heard of supply and demand.

When a fuel cell, hybrid, whatever, has as much get up and go as my car then I'll switch. Until then a polluting I will go.

Cardinal Mike!!

schutd

Typical American selfishness thru consumerism.

CardinalMike

It's called capitalism.

Cardinal Mike!!

SirStefan32

Holy crap, I am not alone. There are others capitalists here.



Having said that, I would love to see us not dependent on the Saudis. I really want to see these AFV's.

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man

schutd

You can be a capitalist with a conscience. Im not anti-capitalism. Im anti recklessness. Im anti-selfishness. And I'm PRO living your life with the good of others in mind. How horrible of me.

Show me a good reason for driving a gas guzzing monster sized SUV other than "Cause I can" and I'll consider it. You want horsepower and get up and go? Whats the hurry?

CardinalMike

That sounds alot like what christianity is supposed to be, how very noble of you. However, explain to me how buying a clearly superior product(SUV vs Electric/Hybrid/Green) is evil? If they had electric vehicles that could seat 8 comfortably, survive a head on collision at 40 mph, cruise at 85 and had foldable seats to allow for increased cargo space then I would most likely buy one. It's not that I don't care about the environment or my fellow citizens in this country, its that I have higher priorities.

Safety for one, convience for another. There are many other reasons if you'd like I can relay them to you.

Cardinal Mike!!

Ryanwb

Typical schutd holier than thou statement

How about joining this little place called Earth and realize that people are allowed the freedom to choose what kind of car they want with out offending all the Tree Huggers in the world. My Yukon is not the problem, the automakers of the world need to be the ones putting a comparable product on the market. I'm sorry but I cannot tow my quads or boat with a wimpy assed Honda Element. Am I just supposed to give up the luxuries my lifestyle can afford because it pissess a couple peopld off? Hell no

KingofCards

Sorry, I have been labeled a liberal, which I am not, but I agree with this.

I live in AZ. I have lived here for 30 years. I know places that I need a vehicle with some balls and some clearance to get to. To get away from Republicans and Democrats and Independents, and whomever.

We cannot forget about the environment, I am all for that, I am all for preserving our forests and protecting our wildlife, but if I can't get there to see it, or show my family what I know or what I have found forget it.

Build me a true alternative fuel Truck, that I can climb mountains with and fish where I need to fish, or it isn't gonna work for me.

Though I do feel that the invention of the SUV as well as millions of idiots moving to Arizona has ruined it already.

Of course I blame it on the Republicans.

Sorry I was just born that way.

__________________
"Let the rabbits wear glasses."

SUTTILL

The beauty of capitalism is that it can adapt to changing circumstances and needs. Did you notice from the article how much $ some of these automakers are starting to invest in R&D in this area? That is because many people are starting to realize that its not all about how much "get up and go" your vehicle has. We have a collective responisibitly to preserve our air quality and prevent the unncessary emission of greenhouse gasses.

But speaking of "get up and go", I'm looking at a 2004 Toyota Prius that supposedly has a little more hp than its predecessor. The Prius is a hybrid vehicle that runs on electric and gas. You can go up to 42 mph without the gas-engine even kicking in. Toyota is definitely ahead of the game.

schutd

I see you didn't say it was incorrect though.


Of course you shouldn't HAVE to. Would you even consider it though? Im guesing no. ANd the resoning would be becasue you couldn't rip up bumblebee hill at 85 MPH without your 4gallons to the mile SUV. You Probably COULD get up it at 55 or so, god forbid, with an Element, but that would inconvenience you so much, you'd lose 15 or 20 minutes of sunburn and maybe youre 14th Bud in a can, before ytou came barreling backdown the hill loaded to the nines.

See how I'm sterotyping you here? its about as childish as the tree hugger comment. And the tree hugger comment is so tired. WHy is it when anyone cares enough about OTHER PEOPLE and the state of our world, they are automatically some tree hugging hippy? Its becasue you got nothing better than to call people names, huh?

Youre right, you shouldn't HAVE to give up your overly testoerone enriched watertoys just for the long term sake of the environment, but it would be nice if you'd at least consider trying once in a while, rather than crying about your lost freedoms. So shortsighted.

Cardiologist

I agree. Let's not just have some small segment of our society use these cars but let's buy so many of them that gas fuel cars are no longer made. First should be all government vehicles. I love those hydrogen cars. Their waste is actually [i]good[i/] for the enviroment.

__________________
The paomnnehil pweor of the hmuan mnid.
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't
mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
ptrety naet eh

SirStefan32

As several people pointed out, there are some things they want their vehicle to provide, (safety, ability to get to ceirtain locations) and untill these "alternative" fuel vehicles provide that, they are obsolete.

Stefan

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man

SUTTILL

Sir Stefan wrote:

"...As several people pointed out, there are some things they want their vehicle to provide, (safety, ability to get to ceirtain locations) and untill these "alternative" fuel vehicles provide that, they are obsolete..."

Hey, sounds like you are ready to buy a 2004 Prius hybrid. They are safe, get around, etc. and definitely not obsolete. 50+ mpg is not obsolete. Open your eyes, and perhaps your mind, a little bit could you??