Ryanwb

First a Preface: My wife and I have had this discussion for years and never could agree, she is a stout religious person and I .....well I am me

Are you born gay or is it a product of your environment?

I say you are born gay, but my wife says "wrong" because god doesn't make mistakes.

I am sorry, but I believe you are born gay, just as you are born straight.

Krangthebrain

We (DbackJon and me, Krang) argued with the Bible guys (Stefan, Shawn, and Strongbad) for ever on the Sodomy thread.

Jon and I believe it is biological (a person is born with it) while the Bible guys believe that it is behavioral.

A general question that I always ask: Why would anyone choose to be a gay? Think about Ryan. You've been in a lockerroom before, and heard what guys say. Why would any male choose a life where people constantly harass you?

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“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

Ryanwb

I know (drooling) why am I straight?

Krangthebrain

Because you like the feeling of boobies?

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

FischerKing

Part II - lol

Ryan, your wife is correct in the sense that God doesn't make mistakes. However, to extend that down to homosexuality and whether it is behavioral or biological is an error. God isn't still creating humans in the same sense or way that he created Adam and Eve, therefore she is incorrect. We make the mistakes and while Krang tends to believe that I hold "religiously" to the behavioral side of the fence, I did post in the other thread what I would consider a plausible view for homosexuality to be biological and not genetic.

I'll repost it here because I don't think very many people saw it and if they did, only one person commented on it.

Shawn

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Ryanwb

I had no idea this was discussed in another thread...I only bring it up because I heard two people discussing it in the cafeteria today.

FischerKing

Here is what I posted on the other board. I don't post this as fact - just an observation.

Shawn

__________________


"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if
you win, you are still retarded..."

"I can't trust a woman who would marry me." ~ AzCards21

"I don't care what you believe, keep your religion out of my peanut butter!" ~ Assface

Ryanwb

I used to have a gay dog....does that figure into this equation at all? He would hump other male dogs and ignore the "in heat" females. My wife says dogs don't go to heaven...which just floors me after I saw the movie All Dogs Go to Heaven.

AZCB34

This is a very interesting observation. Here is my question:

If essentially the DNA is breaking down due to 2LT, then how does one deny themselves what they are now genetically predisposed to do?

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Chris_Sanders

LOL!

Krangthebrain

I actually posted something sort of like this on the other thread.

I guess in Australia (or any place for that matter) there are gay sheep (rams). These rams are only attracted to other male rams, and not at all attracted to female rams. Researchers have found, that their brain chemistry is different.

Now that doesn't prove that homosexuality is biological, but it definitely is a clue. It is hard to compare differences in species, but researchers have found some differences in the size of the hypothalmus (part of the brain that regulates libido).

At this point in time, it can't be proved that homosexuality is biological, but the same can be said for it being behavioral. There is actually more prove that it is biological.

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

Krangthebrain

Originally posted by FischerKing
Not to throw a huge "monkey" wrench into the works here, but I was thinking about this earlier today...

2nd Law of Thermodynamics - what else am I going to think about in the middle of a long weekend? This states that everything moves from order to disorder - ie, things eventually wear out and break down until they no longer function. In a closed system - once the usuable energy is gone - that's it - nothing left.

So what does this have to do with our debate? Well, from the theistic point of view I can almost see how this could be biological but only from this standpoint. Granted I haven't thougth about this entirely all the way through - but here is another angle that I'll put forth. At the time of Creation - everything was in a high order of stability and functionality. However, taking into account the 2nd Law of Thermo (2LT) - everything breaks down eventually. Applied to the Homo Sapiens genetic code - this would also mean that as the DNA is copied down from parent to child over numerous generations that eventually the DNA would show signs of coming under the effects of the 2LT.

If you owned an original of a manuscript by your favorite author and made a copy of it and then took that copy and made a copy of it and so on and so forth - eventually the copy would be so degraded that it would be illegible.

Applied to DNA - our genetic code - our most basic makeup - certain people would be born with certian biological dispositions which could incapsulate their sexual preferences.






Shawn, sounds like evolution.

__________________
“Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn’t worry about what workout to do—his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn’t care ‘how hard it is’; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn’t go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the ‘Cause.’ Now, who wants to quit?”

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On life after football: "I wouldn't mind being a sports commentator. Having my own segment, working for ESPN, my own talk show. Part time trainer. Part time car mechanic. Part time Sprint cell phone salesman. Part time car washman. Grocery store baggage man. Football coach. Model. Actress. Stripper. And I even have dreams of being the next crocodile hunter." - Darnell Dockett

SirStefan32

Acctually, it sounds like devolution rather that "evolution."

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jf-08

My cousin is gay. He is now 36. We had a long talk about this. He knew he was "different" from the other boys when he was in pre-school. Eric said that when the other boys were talking about how "Jennifer" or "Kimmie" were cute and how they would tease them, he said he felt the same way with some of the boys in the room. Now, granted at this age he had no idea what sexual tendicies were, but he felt odd. If someone has the gall to tell me that he "chose" his lifestyle, then I really wish you pray to your God and ask him to help you with your ignorance and understanding.

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SirStefan32

Show me the proof that homosexuality is biological, and I will go and pray to my God to help me understand.

You know a guy who always "felt" he was different. (What the heck is that supposed to mean anyways? All kids feel "different" every now and then.)

I know many gays and lesbians (current and former) that are responsible enough to admit that they made a choice, or there were tragic events that led them to homosexuality. (Such as rape, childhood memories of sexual abuse, etc)

__________________
"Don't try to threaten me Mulder! I've watched presidents die."

"If people would know the things I know, we'd all fall apart."

"Once again, tonight, the course of human history will be set by two unknown men standing in the shadows."

Cigarette Smoking Man