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Location: RIP KOC TIM YOU WILL BE MISSED MY FRIEND
Posts: 6,338
A$FN: 150
What do you think.....Self Defense????
Shooting of dog-walker called justified
Grant Kuenzli (shown with his Labrador retriever, Maggie) was killed May 11 on a forest trail north of Payson.
Payson-area trail death deemed self-defense
Peter Corbett
The Arizona Republic
May. 22, 2004 12:00 AM
It was a common Arizona hiking confrontation: big, unleashed dogs on a trail, turning a peaceful walk in the woods into a frightening ordeal of snarling teeth and vicious barking.
Usually it is settled with words, sometimes angry. This time it turned deadly.
Coconino County sheriff's detectives say the shooting of 43-year-old Grant Kuenzli was a justifiable homicide. But the victim's friends say he was a peaceful man who had volunteered to take a couple of dogs from an animal shelter out for exercise and didn't deserve to die.
The encounter occurred 11 days ago near Payson, when Kuenzli was hiking through the woods on the Pine Canyon Trail with his dog, a yellow Labrador retriever named Maggie, and two other dogs, a chow and a German shepherd mix.
The dogs, which were not on leashes, ran ahead and apparently startled Harold Fish, a 57-year-old retiree from Phoenix, according to sheriff's Detective Scott Feagan.
Fish, who was carrying a 10mm semiautomatic pistol in a holster, felt threatened, Feagan said, and fired a warning shot into the ground near the dogs and then three shots at Kuenzli, all of which hit him in the chest.
"Our investigation leads us to believe this is a situation of self-defense," Feagan said. "(Fish) was under attack."
Fish could not be reached for comment. There were no other witnesses.
Payson retiree John McCauley, 73, who befriended Kuenzli at Payson's dog park, described him as "a very gentle person" who loved dogs and the outdoors.
McCauley and others in Payson who knew Kuenzli said it does not add up that he and his dogs would have been a threat to another hiker.
Feagan related Fish's account of the shooting:
Kuenzli's barking dogs charged at Fish, who yelled at Kuenzli to call them off. Fish fired a warning shot when the lead dog, the chow, was within 6 feet of him.
Fish looked up and saw Kuenzli running down the hill, fists clenched, and yelling at him. He warned him to stop. Kuenzli charged forward. Fish shot him three times.
Fish then hiked out and flagged down a passer-by to alert the Sheriff's Department. Kuenzli was dead when the paramedics arrive.
Fish had no wounds from the dogs.
Both Kuenzli and Fish were each about 5 feet 10 inches tall and weighed close to 200 pounds.
Feagan said the chow that charged Fish has a documented history of aggression.
That is disputed by Larry Stubbs, Payson Humane Society president.
Kuenzli, who volunteered at the Payson shelter, had taken the chow and shepherd out for a hike with Maggie, a therapy dog that he took to senior centers.
Stubbs, a retired Phoenix police officer, said the shelter would have euthanized either dog if it was vicious.
He said the Sheriff's Department had not contacted him.
McCauley said he believes that Kuenzli probably yelled at Fish not to kill his dogs.
"I don't think the guy who shot him was doing anything malicious," McCauley said.
"I just think he overreacted."
William Boa, a Mesa police volunteer for 14 years and a gun instructor, said a dog could be considered a lethal weapon.
"The question is: Are you in fear of your life and did you take a reasonable action?" said Boa, who teaches a concealed-weapons permit course.
Fish had a permit but was carrying his pistol openly, which is legal in Arizona.
A warning shot might indicate that Fish had time to flee, Boa said.
"Personally, I would have shot the dog first," he said.
Although detectives say the shooting appears to have been justified, they do intend to present the case to a Coconino County grand jury.
It will be several weeks before any results are known.
McCauley said he is concerned that Kuenzli will be portrayed to a grand jury as homeless and a "loose cannon."
Kuenzli was living in the woods near Payson, but he showered and shaved every day and was well-adjusted, McCauley said.
He worked as a fire inspector for the Gilbert Fire Department from July 1998 to April 1999.
Kuenzli also had a Web site listing himself as a pet photographer and appeared on an Internet listing of Arizonans for Howard Dean.
"He had plenty of money, a bank account and a $1,000 check on him when he was killed," McCauley said.
Stubbs, of the Payson Humane Society, said people in Payson are wondering how the shooting could have happened.
"He was such mild-mannered guy, they can't understand it," Stubbs said.
Location: RIP KOC TIM YOU WILL BE MISSED MY FRIEND
Posts: 6,338
A$FN: 150
This guy got away with killing someone IMO, interesting that he didnt shoot the dogs charging him nor was ever attacked even after shooting the dogs owner, this guy should face charges... this is a bunch of crap.
My aunt better watch out - she has 5 dogs and goes on daily walks with them. Her shi-tzu has a mean bark - bust out your 9mm everyone
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I.D. badges are long overdue. Security in this office park is a joke. Last year, I came to work with my spud gun in a duffel bag. I sat at my desk all day, with a rifle that shoots potatoes at 60 pounds per square inch. Can you imagine if I was deranged? - Dwight K. Schrute
This guy got away with killing someone IMO, interesting that he didnt shoot the dogs charging him nor was ever attacked even after shooting the dogs owner, this guy should face charges... this is a bunch of crap.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
yup I agree but man I hate dog owners that dont think about other people. my girl has a fear of dogs and when we run trails people with dogs dont even pull them in as runners go by. Ugh I HATE THAT!
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Goal for 2008: Half as many penalties.
yup I agree but man I hate dog owners that dont think about other people. my girl has a fear of dogs and when we run trails people with dogs dont even pull them in as runners go by. Ugh I HATE THAT!
IMO that's all the man was guilty of....being inconsiderate.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
The County DA has decided to prosecute for murder. Any reasonable person would not have shot the man.
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26-year-old Saermengsi last season rated average 25.1 minutes, with 7.5 hours, 2.7 times and 2.7 backboard secondary attack, he Yifusen general as the replacement came in March Yifusen injuries ever period of time, three matches in a row, his secondary attack will reach 10. By Sun team, he could strengthen outer lane line, but also as the replacement fullback scored his general customary activities in the stadium two wings. On the season Saermengsi-ball hit rate reached 30%. He was in flames and Jones made a three-year teammate, Jones said that the organizers he pitches, but he can also shooting. His shooting is deceptive.
What I don't understand is why does he has to shoot the guy 3 times in the chest if it was self defense??? Can't he just shoot him in the arm or in the leg?
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"I'm a football player," says Boldin, "Receiver is something they call me just because they have to put something down on paper."
Shots fired from one foot away By LARRY HENDRICKS
Sun Staff Reporter
06/06/2004
[ archive ]
The May 11 shooting death of Grant Kuenzli at a trailhead near Payson has sparked a statewide debate as to whether the man who shot Kuenzli, Harold Fish, acted in self-defense or overreacted and deserves to face punishment.
Investigators with the Coconino County Sheriff's Office have stated that Fish's statements of self-defense and evidence at the scene were consistent with each other.
The Coconino County Attorney's Office filed a complaint Friday charging Fish with second-degree murder.
The following was compiled from the incident case file as of June 2, 2004. Investigative report of Det. Scott Feagan of the Coconino County Sheriff's Office dated May 18.
Upon arriving at the scene, Feagan secured Fish's 10 mm stainless steel Model Target 2, semi-automatic handgun.
"In speaking with Harold Fish, I observed his demeanor to be somewhat frustrated and he appeared depressed about this incident," Feagan stated.
Fish stated to Feagan that he had just finished his hike and was looking forward to getting to his car when two dogs came running at him. Fish stated he thought the dogs were trying to bite him, that they were agressive with "yellow teeth and growling."
"Fish said, 'I had an automatic on my backpack belt. I remember yelling, 'stop the dogs.''" Feagan stated. "Fish said, 'I couldn't tell if it startled him (indicating Kuenzli) or I don't know.' Fish repreated, 'I remember telling him, 'Call off your dogs, stop your dogs.''"
Continued Feagan, "Fish said when they got halfway down the hill, 'I drew my pistol ... and I am still yelling, 'Stop the dogs.'' Fish said, 'They got right up to me and the biggest, most aggressive got about right there.'"
Feagan stated that Fish pointed to an area about five feet from him.
"Fish said, 'I put a shot in the ground in front of the dog to scare and stop him and the dogs jerked and went off to the sides,'" Feagan stated. "Fish said, 'I looked up and here he came.'"
Fish told Feagan that Kuenzli was running at him "full bore" and saying he was going to kill Fish.
"Fish said, 'I don't know if he thought I shot the dog. I don't know. I'm yelling at him, 'Back off, stop' and he's right on top of me and he's swinging his hands, and I couldn't see if he had anything in his hands. I don't know.'"
Continued Feagan, "Fish said, 'He looked crazy. He's coming right at me and the dogs are on both sides of me and it's bam, bam, bam, like that. I couldn't stop him.' Fish said, 'I couldn't get down because it's downhill. I had my pack on. I couldn't go anywhere.'"
Feagan added that Fish said to him that he thought to himself that he couldn't run from the dogs, that they would get him from behind.
"'Gosh, I want to be anywhere else,'" Feagan stated Fish said.
Fish told Feagan that he had dropped his walking stick.
"'I wasn't thinking about the stick, and if I had thought about it, I probably could have beat them (the dogs) with the stick. It was so fast,'" Feagan stated Fish said.
The whole incident took three seconds, Fish told Feagan.
"'Good grief, I had nowhere to go ... I couldn't go downhill, I've got dogs, a crazy guy,'" Feagan stated Fish said. "'I don't know if he picked up something, I couldn't tell, his hands were moving so fast. Good grief, I'm going to get murdered out here in the middle of the woods. I was wishing I was the heck someplace else. I never had anybody do that.'"
Continued Feagan on what Fish told him, "'I wish I could talk to him. I wish I could ask him, 'what were you thinking?''" Incident report of Sgt. David Ramos, Coconino County Sheriff's Office dated May 11.
Ramos, the first deputy on scene, received a similar story from Fish about the dogs approaching and firing a shot into the ground.
"Immediately thereafter, Harold Fish observed an individual running at him, full speed, downhill with a 'wild, crazed look in his eyes' screaming that he was going to kill Fish for shooting his dogs," Ramos wrote in his report. "Fish yelled back at this individual, who was closing the distance rapidly, that he did not shoot the dogs and that the dogs were fine and ordered this individual to stop."
Ramos continued: "When this individual would not slow down and continued to run at full speed at him, Fish pointed his handgun at the subject and yelled several times to 'stop, or I will be forced to shoot.'"
Fish told Ramos that he was in fear for his life at that point, fearing the person running at him would follow through with his death threats. When the man running at him was nearly on top of him, Fish fired.
The man fell to the ground.
Fish told Ramos that he immediately laid the man on his right side, rested the man's head on Fish's backpack, took a space blanket out of his pack and put it over the injured man, who Fish said was still alive.
Fish told Ramos he ran to State Route 87, flagged down a person in a white car. The person in the car called for help. Fish then went back and waited with the man he had shot until medics arrived.
Sheriff's officials found the two dogs back in Kuenzli's car, which had the passenger door propped open with a piece of wood.
Coconino County Animal Control removed the dogs.
"The first dog, which had the appearance of a yellow Lab, was removed from beneath the steering wheel area on the driver's side of the vehicle," stated Ramos' report. "This dog was very submissive to the animal control officer."
Continued Ramos: "The second dog, which was removed from the back seat area of the vehicle, was extremely hesitant in exiting the vehicle and had to be physically taken from the car to be taken into the care of the animal control officer." Incident report of Cpl. Jeff Palmer, Coconino County Sheriff's Office, dated May 13.
Jeff Palmer, a deputy who specializes in tracking, documented Kuenzli's path downhill from his vehicle to the trail where he fell. Evidence suggests Kuenzli had been moving faster than a walk.
Kuenzli's stride varied between 26 and 40 inches, and the straddle between his right and left foot averaged between 18 to 24 inches.
Palmer stated in his report that a person going down a moderate grade hill walking would have a short stride and a 10- to 12-inch straddle between the right and left foot. A person running down the hill would have a stride of 40 to 46 inches and a straddle of 8 to 12 inches. A person loping down a slippery slope would have a stride of 30 to 40 inches and a straddle of 23 to 26 inches.
Palmer described the area where Kuenzli descended as "... a forest mix of pine and manzanita. The area was littered with pine needles and pine needle debris. The trail down from the vehicle was that of course [sic] granite gravel." Report of investigator with Coconino County Medical Examiner's Office, and autopsy report of Yavapai County Medical Examiner, dates not noted.
Kuenzli had been shot on the right and left side of chest three times. Two of the wounds were fatal, with one puncturing the heart and another puncturing a lung. The death was ruled a homicide.
"All three wounds appear to be at very close range approximately one foot away from the shooter," wrote the investigator in his report.
Kuenzli also had a pronounced gunshot wound to his right thumb and a creased wound on the top of his left forearm. Toxicology reports of Kuenzli were negative except for the presence of two types of antidepressants and caffeine in his system.
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