Ten Commandments vs Jesus [Archive] - Arizona Sports Fans Network

MadCardDisease

November 16th, 2005, 07:58 AM

I was watching a show last night about Issac Newton. He was very religious and believed that worshiping Jesus was in direct violation with the Second commandment.

Thought it was a very interesting concept and wanted to see what people though.

Based on what I have read in the Bible I would have to say yes, worshiping Jesus does in fact violate the second commandment.

jenna2891

November 16th, 2005, 08:25 AM

since the kinds of people who would care about whether or not they are breaking the ten commandments are the same kinds of people who believe jesus was god, i would say no.

DKCards

November 16th, 2005, 08:27 AM

Jesus is God. This is based on the trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three in one. This concept is established in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.

Below is one verse from each the Old and New Testament stating that Jesus is God.

Old Test:

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

New Test:

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Ryanwb

November 16th, 2005, 08:34 AM

Below is one verse from each the Old and New Testament stating that Jesus is God.

New Test:

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

I'm sorry, but how the hell to you get that he is saying he is God from that???

justAndy

November 16th, 2005, 09:41 AM

I can't vote in this poll - it's all irrational and meaningless to me.

Djaughe

November 16th, 2005, 09:46 AM

I can't vote in this poll - it's all irrational and meaningless to me.

lol...Don't feel bad ...I can't vote either fer different reasons. :)

PortlandCardFan

November 16th, 2005, 10:37 AM

Loophole.....

nothing said about goddesses!!!!

mmmmmmmmmmm..... Aphrodite!!!!

DKCards

November 16th, 2005, 11:02 AM

I'm sorry, but how the hell to you get that he is saying he is God from that???

In the Old Testament God refers to himself as I am.
"God said to Moses, "I am who I am . [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%203:14&version=31#fen-NIV-1594a)] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

Many times in the New Testament Jesus does the same.

LoyaltyisaCurse

November 16th, 2005, 11:29 AM

In the Old Testament God refers to himself as I am.
"God said to Moses, "I am who I am . [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%203:14&version=31#fen-NIV-1594a)] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

Many times in the New Testament Jesus does the same.

I thought you were quoting Popeye :O

UncleChris

November 16th, 2005, 11:37 AM

I thought you were quoting Popeye :O

C'mon, LIAC!! You know better than that!!!! Popeye's would be,

"I yam what I yam..." :O ;) :wave:

arthurracoon

November 16th, 2005, 11:45 AM

Loophole.....

nothing said about goddesses!!!!

mmmmmmmmmmm..... Aphrodite!!!!

:O

Rivercard

November 16th, 2005, 11:58 AM

"God said to Moses, "I am who I am"

Ah yes, the deep thoughts of God.

krepitch

November 16th, 2005, 12:10 PM

Ah yes, the deep thoughts of God.

:biglaugh:

PortlandCardFan

November 16th, 2005, 12:28 PM

Ah yes, the deep thoughts of God.

God= Jack Handy??? :shrug:

RedStorm

November 16th, 2005, 02:33 PM

C'mon, LIAC!! You know better than that!!!! Popeye's would be,

"I yam what I yam..." :O ;) :wave:
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

MadCardDisease

November 16th, 2005, 02:53 PM

Donald

November 16th, 2005, 07:05 PM

Based on what I have read in the Bible I would have to say yes, worshiping Jesus does in fact violate the second commandment.

You must have only read the Old Testament then. The New shows Jesus and God as the same.

I believe in the Holy Trinity so therefore, me and Commandment Two are Cool like Fonzie.

Donald

November 16th, 2005, 07:08 PM

If Jesus and God are the same thing. Then why did Jesus yell "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" when he died? To me that sounds like Jesus was speaking to God as if he was totally seperate from himself.

He was, he was God in the flesh, born of man to a virgin, not sired by a human.

It's science---Ron Burgandy.

Complex, yes. Jesus was man and God in one being...the holy trinity is one and three, separate and together.

Assface

November 16th, 2005, 07:09 PM

What about the second part? Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

http://www.heirloomrosaries.com/crucifixes/crucifix29.jpg

CardLogic

November 16th, 2005, 09:17 PM

Serious question: Do any of the non-believers/non-Christians here (within the forum) really care to understand the answer or is this simply an opportunity for ridicule?

MCD, If you or anyone else would like to discuss this in earnest I would be happy to offer additional comments.

Brian in Mesa

November 16th, 2005, 09:36 PM

What about the second part? Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

http://www.heirloomrosaries.com/crucifixes/crucifix29.jpg

Interesting choice - looks Catholic. They don't follow the same Commandments. :rolleyes:

CardLogic

November 16th, 2005, 09:36 PM

What about the second part? Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."The full paragraph follows:And God spoke all these words, saying:
“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments." It is clear that God intends that man worship no other gods or idols. Regarding the phrase, " any likeness of what is in the heavens above", God was referring to anything other than Himself. Being that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh a crucifix (such as illustrated) is of God.

Additionally, I would note that most Christians, other than Catholic, do not use the crucifix as a symbol but instead prefer the bare cross. At any rate the item itself, cross or crucifix is not worshipped. It is simply a symbol of one's faith.

jenna2891

November 17th, 2005, 06:27 AM

What about the second part? Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

why don't we ask this guy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/pirate_9/places/OHMONjesus04.jpg

PortlandCardFan

November 17th, 2005, 06:33 AM

The full paragraph follows:And God spoke all these words, saying:
“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments." It is clear that God intends that man worship no other gods or idols. Regarding the phrase, " any likeness of what is in the heavens above", God was referring to anything other than Himself. Being that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh a crucifix (such as illustrated) is of God.

Additionally, I would note that most Christians, other than Catholic, do not use the crucifix as a symbol but instead prefer the bare cross. At any rate the item itself, cross or crucifix is not worshipped. It is simply a symbol of one's faith.

Why can god be jealous but can't?? Like say jealous of another mans wife....

CardLogic

November 17th, 2005, 06:59 AM

You can't be "jealous" of another man's wife... But you might be envious. You may be jealous if another man was with your wife.

jealous:
1 a : intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness b : disposed to suspect rivalry or unfaithfulness
2 : hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage
3 : vigilant in guarding a possession

envy:
1 : painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage
God created us and everything in our existance. He gets to make the rules! :shrug: He wishes that we worship Him and Him only. I don't think it is a lot to ask, having given us our existance and all.

PortlandCardFan

November 17th, 2005, 07:15 AM

CardLogic

November 17th, 2005, 07:57 AM

I have problems authoritative figures!!! :O :eek:Didn't that present issues in the military? :O

PortlandCardFan

November 17th, 2005, 08:07 AM

Didn't that present issues in the military? :O

Yes... it did!!!

Donald

November 17th, 2005, 10:49 AM

Interesting choice - looks Catholic. They don't follow the same Commandments. :rolleyes:

:confused:

MadCardDisease

November 17th, 2005, 11:52 AM

It is clear that God intends that man worship no other gods or idols. Regarding the phrase, " any likeness of what is in the heavens above", God was referring to anything other than Himself. Being that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh a crucifix (such as illustrated) is of God.
I don't know, when i read that passage it sounds like God is saying don't make any idols at all. I guess you can imply that he meant other than himself but how do you know for sure?

Additionally, I would note that most Christians, other than Catholic, do not use the crucifix as a symbol but instead prefer the bare cross. At any rate the item itself, cross or crucifix is not worshipped. It is simply a symbol of one's faith.

I see lots of symbols/idols from many different types of Christians other than Catholic The most common one that comes to mind is the Jesus fish stuck on the back of cars.

MadCardDisease

November 17th, 2005, 11:53 AM

why don't we ask this guy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/pirate_9/places/OHMONjesus04.jpg

That is a good example of why I'm glad we have a HOA in our neighbor hood.

:thumbup:

jenna2891

November 17th, 2005, 12:07 PM

I see lots of symbols/idols from many different types of Christians other than Catholic The most common one that comes to mind is the Jesus fish stuck on the back of cars.

right, but the people with the fish don't actually think the fish is jesus; it's like having a poster of the cardinals in your room. you don't think the poster gets down off your wall and plays badly every sunday, nor do you think you are yelling at the actual team when you yell at the poster after the game.

Assface

November 17th, 2005, 12:13 PM

right, but the people with the fish don't actually think the fish is jesus; it's like having a poster of the cardinals in your room. you don't think the poster gets down off your wall and plays badly every sunday, nor do you think you are yelling at the actual team when you yell at the poster after the game.

Actually....I think some of us here do believe that.

krepitch

November 17th, 2005, 12:14 PM

That is a good example of why I'm glad we have a HOA in our neighbor hood.

:thumbup:

LOL.

Jesus: "WTF, man...you used to let me walk on this stuff!"

jenna2891

November 17th, 2005, 12:24 PM

LOL.

Jesus: "WTF, man...you used to let me walk on this stuff!"

my god (i mean my jesus!) that's funny.

CardLogic

November 17th, 2005, 02:17 PM

I don't know, when i read that passage it sounds like God is saying don't make any idols at all. I guess you can imply that he meant other than himself but how do you know for sure? I am not implying anything... read the words in entirety! "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."How much clearer can the verse be - you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. It has got nothing to do with simply making statues. I could make a statue of Pat Tillman, or Abraham Lincoln or even Ryanwb. That would not be a problem. But if upon making the statues I turned them into idols by worshiping them, that would be a problem.

Do you seriously not see the distinction?

I see lots of symbols/idols from many different types of Christians other than Catholic The most common one that comes to mind is the Jesus fish stuck on the back of cars. A "Jesus fish" is a symbol used to designate the occupant of the vehicle as a Christian. It is not intended that Christian worship the fish on the back of cars!

A symbol is a representation of something, often used as a reminder of that which it is a symbol of. An idol is an object to which worship is proffered. Big difference.

justAndy

November 18th, 2005, 05:45 AM

I like it when a business identifies itself as Christian - then I know to get EVERYTHING in writing.
(j/k - i stole that from Wm S Burroughs)

MadCardDisease

November 18th, 2005, 10:27 AM

Do you seriously not see the distinction?
A "Jesus fish" is a symbol used to designate the occupant of the vehicle as a Christian. It is not intended that Christian worship the fish on the back of cars!

A symbol is a representation of something, often used as a reminder of that which it is a symbol of. An idol is an object to which worship is proffered. Big difference.

I don't know,

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them"

Christians call themselves servants of Christ. The fish represents peoples belief in christ. Which means that they worship Christ. I don't think it is any different than a crucifix that a Catholic uses.

RedStorm

November 18th, 2005, 11:28 AM

I don't know,

Christians call themselves servants of Christ. The fish represents peoples belief in christ. Which means that they worship Christ. I don't think it is any different than a crucifix that a Catholic uses.

Christians do not go to church to worship a fish or crucifix. Are you sure you are not grasping the idea? The cross to a christian is God's ultimate act of love for mankind. It is where He killed his own Son who was sinless and deserved not death and took on the full measure of God's wrath for the sins of mankind. So that there would be no more wrath or punishment left for anyone who believed and put their faith in God's Son. That is why the cross is important to a christian. It is not worshiped. Only there as a reminder.

PortlandCardFan

November 18th, 2005, 11:29 AM

I don't know,

Christians call themselves servants of Christ. The fish represents peoples belief in christ. Which means that they worship Christ. I don't think it is any different than a crucifix that a Catholic uses.

I was watching a show on one of the learning channels (can't remember which). It was on the crucifix in which Jesus was nailed to. Above his (Jesus) head was a sign that listed his name and the crime IIRC. It was writen in latin, greek, and I believe aramaic. One of the symbols on the sign was the lil' fishy which represents his name.

Or something like that..

It was a good show hard to watch when you have a 7 and 2 year old zooming around.

CardLogic

November 18th, 2005, 11:46 AM

Christians call themselves servants of Christ. The fish represents peoples belief in christ. Which means that they worship Christ. I don't think it is any different than a crucifix that a Catholic uses."Can you understand the words coming outta my mouth!!!" - Chris Tucker, Rush Hour :O

I'll try this one more time...

Both the fish and the crucifix (or cross) are symbols. Neither the fish nor the crucifix are worshipped. Christians and Catholics both worship Christ; not the symbols. Christ is one and the same with "the Father", God. There is no idol worship involved with this.

Now with respect to Catholicism, if you want to talk about the statues of other "saints" which are prayed to... then you may have a valid point!
This is, perhaps, what another post (BIM, I think) was referring to earlier in this thread.

MadCardDisease

November 18th, 2005, 12:08 PM

Now with respect to Catholicism, if you want to talk about the statues of other "saints" which are prayed to... then you may have a valid point!

Actually the statues of the Saints are not Carved, they are sculpted, so clearly they don't fall into the catagory:

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image"

:thumbup:

CardLogic

November 18th, 2005, 02:44 PM

Actually the statues of the Saints are not Carved, they are sculpted, so clearly they don't fall into the catagory:

:thumbup::roll:

Donald

November 18th, 2005, 03:20 PM

Now with respect to Catholicism, if you want to talk about the statues of other "saints" which are prayed to... then you may have a valid point!
This is, perhaps, what another post (BIM, I think) was referring to earlier in this thread.

Other than some areas of Latin America, there isn't worship of the saints or their statues.

We pray "with" Saints, or ask them for their prayers. Saints are alive in heaven, and not next door, so we ask them to intercede. The more prayers, the better. We always ask for them to "pray for us." It's like being added to a prayer list.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/faq.php#idol

Overall Catholic beliefs

http://www.anawim.pair.com/CATHOLICS/INFO.htm