Troublemaker: Surviving Hollywood and Scientology

Discussion in 'Books' started by Rivercard, Oct 15, 2015.

  1. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    Oh, I agree with you to a point there. As I've said, I've asked why they don't respond, but it's a never ending cycle. You can see a little of it in this thread, but not nearly as much as the Going Clear thread in the Movie forum. It was me against the world there. :)

    I get why people are skeptical of the religion--it's frustrating seeing people who have never ever knowingly met a Scientologist spout the same tired rhetoric and put down those that have evidence to the contrary.

    As I've said, every religion has problems, which is why Covert Rain's example has some truth to it. He mentions the church discourages its members to be around "suppressive" people. That's basically them suggesting members to cut ties with people that can lead them down immoral or unethical paths. They are so against criminal behavior, it's strange but interesting how much of an interest they take. Part of that is a little invasion of privacy, IMO, but a part of it is trying to avoid getting even more bad press. They're trying to avoid being associated with potential criminal behavior. I myself know someone that is being investigated by the church for excommunication because he apparently had an affair with a married woman.

    They make it a point to concentrate on the moral side of humanity -- whether that going to Haiti for earthquake relief or providing marriage and financial counseling. They also use strange terms like "auditing", which is basically seeing a therapist. And no, aliens are not part of the religion.
     
  2. Rivercard

    Rivercard Too much good stuff

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    Good post Chap. Have you read the book you are commenting on in this thread?

    I have no reason to doubt Leah or any ex-member who is telling their story. Could there sometimes be sour grapes involved? Sure, but there are thousands of people out there telling their story, each one different that the other yet all strangely similar in some ways. I think you have to ask yourself why that is. have you ever went to any ex-member forums like Covert Rain mentioned in an earlier post?

    They are wrong, it would certainly benefit the church to disprove certain allegations. Members should be smart enough to realize that. Many scientologists are on record saying they don't allow themselves or are forbidden to be exposed to critical thinking in regards to the church. Do you think that is true?

    Church officials refuse to do interviews, and their use of lawsuits are legendary, so they can blame themselves when it comes to media treatment.

    I don't know Tom, so I don't know if he is loony (Just as you don't know if Leah is unstable). If he is indeed loony he would probably be loony with or without Scientology.

    That's a great question. higher-ups within the church appear to be allowed to behave differently than regular members. LRH set things up in a certain way and drafted aggressive policies for a reason.

    That is what I like about Scientology, that it is strange and weird :) I find how the church operates to be fascinating.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  3. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    I've read excerpts, but no, I haven't read the whole thing. I'll admit that.

    I'll also admit I've never gone to any ex-member forums, but I'm not exaggerating when I say EVERY Scientologist I've met hasn't fit the Leah Rimini narrative. The dozens of Scientologiest I know, including ones that right now work at the huge church in Hollywood (including a relative) have nothing in common with not just the Rimini accusations, but for the multitude of others out there.

    Strangely enough, I think you are too optimistic that a reply would do any good. There actually WAS a reply made to the accusations against them in the Going Clear documentary, but again, nobody knew about it because the media was certainly not going to post it. Difficult enough when any response is being censored by the very media they are trying to use to disseminate their message.

    See above. It doesn't do any good.

    I truly think you are in the minority on this point.

    Now that could have some truth to it, but the problem comes up that if a higher-up does something bad, it reflects on the entire congregation. That is wrong IMO. Imagine if the same thing applied to the Catholics and the sodomy scandal?

    Have you ever been to a church before? As much as I hate being preached to, I've gone through their pitch and it's interesting, but I'm ambivalent towards it. But a lot of my friends live great lives according to its teachings, so who am I to complain about it? I think it's more sad how many people dismiss it so readily with the reasons they are using. I dismiss it because it's religion, not because it puts people in dungeons. LOL
     
  4. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    In my case, that is definitely not the scenario. I mean I have heard it from the horses mouth so to speak. Oh and so I didn't cause waves I didn't post alot of details or some of the specifics. It's not fair to them. However, what you said about "suppressives" is right on. Only that problem they had with it, is the alleged "suppresives" they were told to cut ties with? None were criminals or bad people. Some were family members that the Church new nothing about. It was then followed up with if you don't want to distance yourself convince them to join the Church. It was very manipulative and they felt like they were being forced to cut ties with good people in their lives. I would give more details about their influence on their business and other stuff I mentioned above but again...it's not fair to them.

    Again, all the stuff I pointed out was true in terms of their experience in the Church. I don't think this is a case of "some". If you knew these people and lives they lead....you wouldn't question the honestly of their story. Again..these people are not out to blast Scientology or make money off their story. Aside from close friends and family....they are off the grid so to speak. They just want to distance themselves from the experience and repair all the bridges they burnt in the name of Scientology.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  5. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    Ok, and I have no reason to doubt you on this. However, they would appear IMO to be the exception, not the rule. You've said you've known others that haven't had any problems and I know a lot that haven't had problems. So by our own experience, your friend's situation is not the norm, even if the media would have you believe it is. And it still is a far cry from putting people in dungeons and making people "disappear".
     
  6. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    No what I said is I have met others (still in the Church) and they were nice people. This is the first family I personally know that was involved with the Church that left. However, one detail I left out is this family is spread over 3 different states and the family as a whole had the EXACT same experience which led to basically the entire family leaving the church. They did mention that they have also had friends leave for the same reason.

    That can't be coincidental. Again, not saying that means every inch of the Church is that way. Only that it would be a huge stretch to buy this isn't a much larger issue within the Church itself. That doesn't mean the people are bad only that the leadership of the Church is a different story.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  7. Rivercard

    Rivercard Too much good stuff

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    Click if you dare....

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/forum.php


    Leah didn't really have accusations about scientologists themselves, she seems to like them. When there is criticism it's more about church officials and policy, other celebrities, money, and of course the Shelly issue. But the book isn't really filled with vinegar and hate. She talks about going up the bridge and her experiences while there (i.e. the celebrity center is emptied out when TC is there).

    What was the official response to Going Clear?

    I've seen the websites they created to trash the filmmakers, those are classic. They have a "who is" site to blast most of their high profile critics, though I haven't seen one for Leah yet. Click here if you want to get creeped out....

    http://www.freedommag.org/going-clear/white-papers/paul-haggis.html

    I live in SoCal and I've been inside the big blue building in Hollywood. My brother is a science fiction writer and a few years ago he was getting an award there for his work being included in some of the L.Ron Hubbard science fiction book publications (though my bro is not a scientologist), so I went there to meet him and hung out in the building for a bit.
    Many years ago I thought about doing an introductory session in Hollywood, but I never got the gusto to try it. I would never get involved now, I enjoy the view from afar.
     
  8. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    This! That is exactly the scenario with the family I mentioned. They never bad mouthed their fellow Scientologists to me and even expressed regrets over losing some of those relationships (friends). However, their friends from the Church are no longer allowed to speak to them because now they are labeled "suppresives". Which I find ironic because that is the polar opposite of who these people are. It's the Leadership and policies they had an issue with not their fellow Scientologists.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  9. Dan H

    Dan H Registered User

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    We can totally discount Leah Remini, how about Paul Haggis? Is Paul Haggis unstable, too?

    Going Clear is pretty eye-opening. You can watch the videos of Hubbard speaking and know for sure he was not a stable person, and Miscavige is much the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  10. Rivercard

    Rivercard Too much good stuff

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    According to the church, yes he is. Apparently he is also a has-been self obsessed hypocrite (gee, that sounds familiar). for fun, here's an excerpt from the "Who is Paul Haggis" website link I provided in my last post above:

    All of this underscores what the Church has said before: Paul Haggis is a selfish status-obsessed screenwriter who cannot be trusted and whose only interest is doing anything it takes to get attention. In the words of The Hollywood Reporter, he has been in “the wilderness” professionally and yearns to be relevant again. In the past, he took advantage of Scientologists to gain work and money, including more than $5 million for projects that never materialized. It’s no wonder he is desperate now. And the desperation gets worse and worse as each successive film fails.

    The information about Haggis has been known for four years. The Haggis story about Scientology is a fraud. That anyone showcases his bigoted claims in an article, book or movie is unconscionable. All the Church of Scientology ever was to Paul Haggis was a shortcut by which he could use others for his own selfish goals. Having recently cut a deal to direct a miniseries for HBO, it’s obvious Haggis’ participation is just quid pro quo, the result of which will spread hate in the name of corrupt corporate synergy.
     
  11. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    Paul Haggis had an extremely large axe to grind, much larger than Leah Rimini. Going Clear is clearly biased, do you not see that? Much like Michael Moore's films, but people don't take him seriously, why is Going Clear all that different?
     
  12. Rivercard

    Rivercard Too much good stuff

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    Why?
     
  13. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    Personally, I think I am more pragmatic about these types of things. I go into them thinking that there might be an axe to grind but I am also a big believer on where there is smoke there is fire. Not a big fan of Michael Moore but I do think he is spot on with some of the stuff in his films.

    Plus, even if one has an axe to grind, it doesn't necessarily mean what they are saying doesn't ring true. I mean really you just described the other side of the same coin. On one side this person has a shared bad experience so we should believe everything. On the other, well they have an axe to grind so you should completely discount what they are saying. More often than not, I find that it's probably somewhere in the middle.
     
  14. Rivercard

    Rivercard Too much good stuff

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    So he is being investigated for excommunication for possibly having an affair, meanwhile the COB and his wife haven't lived together for 7 years and nobody in the church seems to care. Isn't that odd?
     
  15. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage badass Contributor

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    nevermind a whole nother page was available
     
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