Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by NJCardFan, Feb 1, 2018.
Unpopular take--I'd take Philip Rivers over Dan Fouts
Romo >> White
Bobby Layne _Lions-led the Lions to several championships in the 50`s and turned a poor Steelers franchise toward being respectable in early 60`s
Rams -Norm Van Brocklin better longer than Warner.
Browns-Otot Graham-helped Cleveland win several champuiionships in the 50`s
NYGiants -YA Tittle and Charlie Conerly both helped Giants into multiple championship games.
SD Chargers-John Hadl helped SD win 64 AFL championship
Eagles -Norm Van Brocklin helped Eagles win 1960 Championship beating Lombardi`s Packers
Green Bay Packers- Bart Starr run of Championship in the 60`s beats out Favre by a hair IMHO
Oilers-George Blanda AFL championships in early 60`s edges Moon
Dolphins-Bob Griese by a hair over Marino because Griese did what Marino couldn`t.Won the Big game several times.
Colts-Johnny Unitas by a little bit over Peyton Manning
Redskins-Sonny Jurgensen and Sammy Baugh by a mile over Theismann
I fixed this.
Believe me, I chewed on this a while and am changing my Browns pick to Graham.
I watched Blanda,Hadl,Unitas,Jurgensen,Starr,Tittle,Griese all on TV several times in the early 60`s and later.Johnny Unitas was the BEST QB i ever saw.Blanda was tough enough to play 10 years for the Bears and when Halas cut him Blanda went to the new AFL and helped the Oilers win a couple of championships and hang around long enough to be a effective backup QB until his early 40`s and a Kicker until he was in his late 40`s for the Raiders. Y.A.Tittle`s NYG couldn`t beat Lombardi`s Packers in the championship games 2 or 3 years in a row.Lombardi said Starr was his perfect QB and he was a excellent QB running the Packer offense like a machine .Jurgensen was a gunslinger who started out backing up Van Brocklin in Philly and getting traded to a poor Redskin team and really shining when Redskins converted Charley Taylor from RB to WR and trading for Bobby Mitchell from Browns.Redskins where the last team to integrate in the NFL and didn`t have a black player until 1961 or 1962.
Griese was like a robot running Dolphins offense and yet he could air it out if needed.Bart Starr was the same way.
As much as I love Jim Hart and the Cardiac Cardinals. Both Kurt Warner and Neil Lomax were better to me. Hart is the best for the amount of years he put in with the team and his offensive line was the best in the history of the NFL to me.
I have concluded that the Chedduh Heads need to conduct a seance to channel the spirits of Miss Cleo to act as the agent for the greatest Packer Backer of all time: Art Donovan. Forget about Lombardi, Art was the kind of guy Scientologists wouldn't talk to. Jehovah's Witnesses would leave Art's home feeling like the Aflac duck! Just like Jack Buck is the second-greatest Cardinal of all-time (behind Stan), Art Donovan's curmudeonly stories were funnier than a barrel of monkeys.
The reason I'll always pick Montana over Young is because of stats. Montana was focused on winning games while Steve Young was concerned about having better stats than Montana.
I'll agree that Young had more physical skills than Montana but Montana was a better "QB".
It is a tough discussion and "best" really needs to be defined. Because I have no doubt about Favre and Rodgers being better QB's than Starr but how do you look past all of those championships? Same thing with Otto Graham. I mean, I'd take Kosar or Sipe in terms of being able to throw the ball but Graham led one of the most dominant teams in football history.
The toughest one on the list might be the Unitas/Manning conversation. I'd still give it to Johnny U since he had the numbers, championships, did it first and defined the position.
I hate to disagree but Bradshaw couldn’t carry Ben’s jock. And if you think Bartkowski is better than Ryan you’re nuts. Ryan has it all over him in every statistical way. Ryan has almost twice as many yards, over 100 more TD’s, much better completion %, almost 40 more wins and Ryan’s rating is 20 points higher than Bartkowski. It’s not even close.
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I think in a conversation like this you have to look a little past the stats. Otherwise, just about any modern day QB is going to be "better" than guys from the past. I'm not knocking Ben but TB was a helluva QB and none shone brighter on the biggest stage. Bradshaw didn't always put up the biggest numbers but you have to remember that he was on a run first, run second team. He was throwing in a lot more predictable situations against defenses that didn't get penalized for illegal contact, defenseless receivers, touching the QB's head, hitting the QB late and many other things.
Bartkowski's career was hampered by injuries but he put up 30+ TD's twice, back when it mean something. Led the league in passer rating and completion % too.
Granted, it's not necessarily easy to compare different era's in football but I think you might be selling these guys short.
Not selling them short at all. Just being realistic. Bradshaw was a average to above average passer. Ben is much better and is a squirrel bastard to boot. Bradshaw's teams also benefited from having arguably the greatest defense of all time. I also found it interesting that you found Warner better than Hart but Van Brocklin better than Warner. Could you elaborate a bit?
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