Miller once again does it again!

Discussion in 'University of Arizona' started by Lefty, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    I assume that's true of Williams and Shareef, but one also gets the impression that at least with Williams, it's if Arizona is on probation he's gone, if they're not, he goes to Arizona.

    Not clear when or if all that's going to be decided since the NCAA has to wait for the FBI to give them the evidence.

    I don't think Lavar has a chance in hell of getting this league off the ground but it does at least somewhat suggest that Williams is considering other options
     
  2. GatorAZ

    GatorAZ Formerly known as GatorHater

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    His league will be headlined by Taeshon Cherry and Jahvon Quinerly.
     
  3. TJ

    TJ The Chosen One

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    Well, well, well.....

     
  4. MaoTosiFanClub

    MaoTosiFanClub What Goes Around Comes Around

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    It was always odd to me that people thought this would be a huge deal.
     
  5. TJ

    TJ The Chosen One

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    Well, it did torpedo our recruiting class and leave uncertainty in the minds of future prospects. Miller just started recruiting heavy again last weekend. Perhaps that means he's more confident in the outcome of the investigation???

    At this point, it's been five months since the arrests and publication of the complaint and there has been nothing of substance since. We were told that dozens of other schools would be implicated and that the schools initially caught were only the tip of the iceberg. There have been no leaks and no signs of progress. The news of the compromised agent is the most significant thing we've heard since September 26th.

    My feeling is that in the end, this will be a nothingburger, but Arizona should, in good faith, self-impose a two-scholarship reduction for next season and call it a day with the NCAA.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  6. TJ

    TJ The Chosen One

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    This FBI investigation is dying a slow death. The vibe around UofA is more optimistic than it was before. Not sure how coincidental it is that Miller has upped his recruiting efforts of late for 18 and 19.

    I cannot believe how irresponsible the FBI was in this matter.
     
  7. GatorAZ

    GatorAZ Formerly known as GatorHater

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    Still will likely nuke two recruiting classes b/c of the stigma. Meanwhile Quinerly announcing his school on Wednesday.
     
  8. TJ

    TJ The Chosen One

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    Should be fine for 2019. We lead for Green and Nico might reclassify to 2019.
     
  9. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    Because the idea that players get paid is not new and we all knew that, but the idea that players were getting paid by coaches, that's out of the norm. That's what made this case different that it involved assistant coaches, and in the Louisville situation their head coach.

    And of course the other reason is this wasn't the NCAA, it was the FBI. They don't have any sacred cows to protect, if they have evidence they're going to pursue it no matter what. They're not concerned about damaging the product the way the NCAA is, they're just following the money.

    I have no idea how it's all going to turn out but i seriously doubt the FBI case is going to fall apart because one guy was misusing funds. The Feds have access that the NCAA never gets, the perfect example was Bazz. The NCAA was on him for years, they were positive the dad was getting paid under the table, and in the end they cleared him because they couldn't prove anything despite clearly being convinced the day was living beyond his means and had to be getting paid.

    And then the feds got involved and found out the dad was committing mortgage fraud, and the dad admitted under oath he also took out a loan using Bazz' NBA future as collateral. The NCAA hounded that family for nearly 2 years and found nothing, and had to drop the case because their investigator told her boyfriend they were going to get him(bazz). The FBi just doesn't work that way, they can't get permission to use wiretaps on just innuendo, they have burdens of proof they have to meet in order to get that stuff. Their conviction rate is VERY high, it's very unusual for the FBI to do something like this and in the end be wrong about the case.

    So the safe assumption here is that what the FBI said was happening, happened. Shoe companies were paying for kids to go to certain schools, the agent was paying money to assistant coaches to get kids, and to steer those kids to certain agents and financial advisors. The only question is how much more have they found that we don't know about yet, and how severely will the NCAA go after those schools when/if they get the evidence from the FBI?

    We don't know the answer yet. I think many people expected the coaches to roll over and give up names and that stuff would come out during the season, it appears that hasn't happened, but it's still had a huge impact IMO. Arizona had the best recruiting class in the country in the process when this came out, they now have 2 recruits, one of whom is really not that good he just happens to have a famous dad and be friends with a bunch of highly rated kids(Williams, Bol among them) who were going to Arizona. USC has lost key members of its class too.

    The schools involved have all been hurt. I also strongly believe both USc and ARizona's seasons have been hurt, they'd both have been better without this case hanging over their heads, and in USC's case costing them Melton.

    Are those 2 schools getting the death penalty, pretty unlikely, but has this case significantly impacted both programs yes, is there likely to be further impact, yes.
     
  10. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    That story has been discussed at length on BRO, we have a former Federal Prosecutor who posts there and he says in these cases lawyers almost ALWAYS ask the judge to dismiss it claiming there was some issue with the wiretap or the warrant was too broad, that's defense 101 when your client is under FBI investigation. It's apparently pretty rare the judge actually agrees.

    If you read the story you linked it says exactly what this guy on BRO said was probably happening, the Feds are asking the charges to be dropped against Augustine not because he's not guilty, but because the FBI is negotiating a plea deal with him and part of that deal is he cooperates, they drop the charges. If you read it says of the 10 arrested, only 2 have not had federal charges filed against them, Augustine, and Munish Sood, and in both cases it's widely assumed the FBI has plea deals in the works with those guys. So they're not dropping charges because they don't have evidence, they're dropping charges because those guys are agreeing to work with them.

    I would guess the reason Miller is upping his recruiting efforts is he needs to rebuild the 18 class, and it's at the right time to be locking in on the 19 class. The FBI story is still there, just the other day Gershon told us for example he thinks UCLA leads for Stanley almost entirely because the dad is concerned about USC and Arizona's involvement in the FBI scandal. He's 19 and trying to move up to 18.

    Mannion will be interesting, if you haven't seen it in another board thread an ASFN poster a few months ago said his son attends HS with Mannion and that word in that school is Mannion has a silent verbal to Kansas. With the story out yesterday that it's arizona, UCLA, Duke and Kentucky leading for him, it'll be interesting to see which is true.
     
  11. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    Forgot to add, it seems the most damning thing in these stories, Pete Thamel has one too, is the failure to name the authorizing authority in the wiretap form for Munish Sood. Thamel cited some obscure case where the FBI put asterisks instead of a name there and a Judge ruled it wasn't properly obtained because it didn't name the guy. In Sood's case it's apparently left blank it says acting so and so but didn't have the name put in .

    So if you're the FBI worst case scenario they might throw out some or all of what they got from wiretapping Sood. That still doesn't mean the NCAA can't use if if they have it, the NCAA isn't pursuing legal charges. And it also clearly doesn't mean what the FBi is claiming happened, didn't happen, if that were the case why did USC fire Bland, why did Arizona fire Book, why did Louisville fired Pitino, why did Auburn fire Person etc? They didn't do that just to appease the NCAA, the NCAA hasn't even acted yet. They did that because presumably they have seen enough evidence that they all believe the coach they fired did what the FBI says they did.
     
  12. MaoTosiFanClub

    MaoTosiFanClub What Goes Around Comes Around

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    Yeah because nobody saw Blue Chips 25 years ago.

    This always has been a big case of nothing, like I said worst case is UA gets a one year postseason ban. Kids who in any other place in the world would be getting paid for the skills get some side money to go to college. Great. Exactly nobody cares (other than part-time unpaid NCAA compliance officer Russ Smith) and the majority of people actually probably support it. The NCAA and the thousands of other people who make literally billions of dollars via the charade were never going to let this case or the countless other "scandals" that uncover the hypocrisy that is college sports kill the golden goose. Just move on already.
     
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  13. ozzfloyd

    ozzfloyd The Carp

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    Russ can't move on. He just HAD to come educate us simpletons over at beardownwildcats.com. Poor wittle Cat fans must be clueless right Russ? :)
     
  14. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    Oh please Blue Chips was a movie, adn the coaches weren't paying the players the booster was. That's what made this case different in some cases the players were getting paid directly by coaches according to the FBI.

    And yes I think most fans think players should get paid, and in fact most fans know players DO get paid, but again it's generally "accepted" on a level playing field. When one school suddenly starts reeling in 5 stars from all over the country, and then their top recruiter gets caught red handed paying players, it doesn't take too much to put 2 and 2 togehter and decide the reason they were getting those elite kids is they were paying for them.

    You guys keep making these bold statements that because nothing has happened, yet, nothing is going to happen. Read Thamel's story, he says right in it that people close to the situation assured him that the FBI is moving forward with the case, they've interviewed lots of people that were NOT publicly named in the FBI case, that is the result of new investigation since the original story broke.

    Nobody knows what the outcome is going to be but saying because nothing has happened and because the FBI made some procedural mistakes, it means nothing will happen, is wishful thinking. The FBI isn't going to put anybody on probation, the NCAA would, and even if the FBI had to throw out their entire case, that wouldn't mean the NCAA couldn't use the information.

    And again, if nothing happened why did all the schools fire their coaches?
     
  15. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    Who said that?

    I'm just saying the 2 stories that are out now in no way suggest what TJ and Mao are saying about the future of this case. and again, read Thamel's story, he says people very clearly told him the FBI is in no way dropping the case, they're moving forward, interviewing new people. he also point blank said it's been widely assumed for months that Sood and Augustine are working with the FBi and that's why they weren't charged with Federal crimes.

    The idea that the actions with Augustine indicate the Feds don't have any evidence against him is a guess, it could be right but then why would augustine be working with the Feds if he knew they didn't have any evidence?

    I have no idea what the outcome is going to be, I've never once predicted a death penalty or some huge program cratering probation, and I'm not the one suggesting I do know what the outcome is going to be, that's the people who keep predicting it's going to blow over because nothing has happened yet. The only "prediction" i've made is it's not going away and the way UA has handled it is different than any other school, they went all in with Miller, they didn't suspend players, if the NCAA decides the FBI has the story dead to rights and what they said is true, ARizona is going to get hit harder than any other school, except Louisville, because of the way they handled it.

    I also don't think the FBI ever really intended to prosecute these guys to the extent announced, does anbody really expect Dawkins to get 200 years? I wouldn't be surprised if next week the judge actually says some of the charges will be dismissed because he doesn't consider what they did to be an actual federal crime. The FBI used the laws to file charges to get people to cooperate,apparently that's worked they are getting cooperation and are getting more names which are being interviewed. Will any of those dismissed be the assistant coaches, no idea, but again the judge would not be saying they didn't violate NCAA rules, he'd just be saying that didn't mean they'd broken federal laws.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018

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