Donald J. Trump: 45th POTUS

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by Brian in Mesa, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. DWKB

    DWKB Registered

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    Lots of stuff already covered in this Vanity Fair article, but this hasn't been mentioned and stuck out to me:

    “I HATE EVERYONE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!”: TRUMP SEETHES AS ADVISERS FEAR THE PRESIDENT IS “UNRAVELING”

    Even before Corker’s remarks, some West Wing advisers were worried that Trump’s behavior could cause the Cabinet to take extraordinary Constitutional measures to remove him from office. Several months ago, according to two sources with knowledge of the conversation, former chief strategist Steve Bannontold Trump that the risk to his presidency wasn’t impeachment, but the 25th Amendment—the provision by which a majority of the Cabinet can vote to remove the president. When Bannon mentioned the 25th Amendment, Trump said, “What’s that?” According to a source, Bannon has told people he thinks Trump has only a 30 percent chance of making it the full term.


    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/donald-trump-is-unraveling-white-house-advisers
     
  2. DWKB

    DWKB Registered

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    NBC: To get Trump to accept the current deployment of U.S. forces worldwide, NatSec leaders chose to show how positions benefited Trump Org.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) October 12, 2017
     
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  3. Joe L

    Joe L The people's champ

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    Trump’s Own College Professor Confirms That He’s Been A Moron For Most Of His Life
    http://www.politicususa.com/2017/10/13/trumps-college-professor-confirms-moron-life.html


    Trump’s former college professor is quoted as having called the now President, the dumbest student that he ever had. The professor added that Trump came to Wharton thinking that he already knew everything, which means that even before his mind started to go, Donald Trump was a moron.

    In a diary published on Daily Kos late professor William T. Kelley was quoted as saying about Trump:

    Professor Kelley told me 100 times over three decades that “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” I remember his emphasis and inflection — it went like this — “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” Dr. Kelley told me this after Trump had become a celebrity but long before he was considered a political figure. Dr. Kelley often referred to Trump’s arrogance when he told of this — that Trump came to Wharton thinking he already knew everything.
     
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  4. Ronin

    Ronin Mad scientist behind the keyboard Contributor

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    :lmao:
     
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  5. LVG

    LVG Who?! Contributor

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    If the cabinet exercises the 25th Amendment, I believe that a subset of Trump supporters will see that as a coup, and will respond with force. My gut feeling; no evidence to back it up.
     
  6. Kel Varnsen

    Kel Varnsen Moderator Contributor

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    JFC. Everything he does or says is an embarrassment.
     
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  7. Matt L

    Matt L formerly known as mattyboy

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    I honestly was not aware of this amendment, I hope it doesn't come to this because this sounds a little coup-ish.
     
  8. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    Do you mean citizens, or within the government?

    I'm starting to get the impression that effectively people are just waiting for someone, maybe Corker, to be the one who says the emperor has no clothes and we need to move forward with the 25th amendment here.

    Apparently the way it works is Pence would have to invoke the amendment declaring Trump unfit to serve as POTUS. Pence becomes POTUS and they have 21 days to get a 2/3 majority vote in congress to declare Trump unfit.

    I would assume that's what's being discussed, can we get a 2/3 majority, because if you do this and don't get that vote in 21 days then Trump gets reinstated as POTUS and given his current behavior that would be a disaster as he'd almost certainly step up the destructive behavior.
     
  9. LVG

    LVG Who?! Contributor

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    Just Trump supporters on the street. Not necessarily those who support him in government service; although some will undoubtedly feel that way.

    The 25th is a pretty complicated dance. Let me outline it so I can demonstrate why I think it's very unlikely to happen. This is all 25th Amend. Sec. 4, if you want to follow along at home.

    1. The VP, and the majority of the cabinet, must agree that Trump is unfit.
    2. The VP and the majority of the cabinet must send a letter to the Senate's president pro tempore (SPPT) and the House Speaker.

    At this point Trump is temporarily removed from office.

    3. Trump will immediately fire a letter off that no inability exists.
    4. Trump will fire his cabinet.

    ---Insert Constitutional Crisis here, because:

    5. The VP and the now-fired cabinet must, within 4 days, send another letter to the SPPT and the Speaker declaring that Trump is still not fit to stay in office.

    Question 1: When Trump fires off his letter to the SPPT and Speaker, does he immediately resume the presidency? Probably not, but there's an argument to the contrary.

    Question 2: Can Trump fire his cabinet while the 25th is invoked? Again, probably not, but this one is a much closer call than Question 1.

    Question 3: Will the courts get involved? Answer: probably no, figuring that there's no good answer to this question and that it's a power accorded to the executive branch and the legislative branch. Maybe they would get involved to interpret the constitution, like if Trump could fire his cabinet when he was temporarily suspended, but that's about it.

    6. Assuming that the cabinet cannot be fired, and assuming that VP and the Cabinet re-transmits their letter to the SPPT and the Speaker:

    (a) If Congress (not the Senate mind you) is in session, it must vote on Trump's incapacity within 48 hours.

    (b) If Congress is out of session, it must vote on Trump's incapacity within 21 days after it comes back into session.

    (c) Regardless, the vote to remove Trump must pass both the House and the Senate by 2/3rds majority. If either fails, Trump remains in power. If it succeeds, Trump remains out of power, but he could always get back in with a majority vote of his cabinet and the VP (unrealistic - if you have 2/3rds majority in both the House and Senate, it would be better to impeach).

    7. Assuming 6(c) is successful, what happens then? Well, Pence is in charge as acting President. But is there a mechanism for Trump to get back in? Can Trump simply fire off a letter every time the House and Senate approves of his incapacity by 2/3rds vote and make the entire system rewind to Step 5? Or is Trump out and there's nothing he can do about it? What if the Cabinet suddenly votes by majority to put him back in? Or if Pence has a change of heart and says Trump is now fit? Does that reinstate Trump? Or is Trump's removal permanent? No one knows - the 25th is silent on the matter.

    Ok, so what does this mean? If Pence wants to get Trump out, and Pence has the majority of the cabinet on his side, then Pence's best bet is to wait until the day after Congress goes on a long recess. Then, Pence and the cabinet transmits their letter to the SPPT and Speaker, knowing that the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker do not have to recall Congress. The majority leader and Speaker can then spend the entire recess twisting congresscritters's arms to vote to keep Trump out.

    But, if Trump gets wind of what's going on before the letter is transmitted, he can simply fire his entire cabinet. And then it's over. No removal, because there's no cabinet to remove him.

    One other thing. There are three people who must be on board for this to happen. The first is Pence; no Pence, no 25th. The second is McConnell; no McConnell, no vote, Trump gets back in. The third is Ryan; no Ryan, no vote, Trump gets back in. This is non-negotiable; these three men have to agree, or Trump comes back after a 4 day vacation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017 at 10:15 AM
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  10. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    Trump has far too many idiots and cronies in the cabinet. I don't know what it would take for the majority of them to turn on him that severely but I suspect it would be something so bad he'd be getting impeached anyway.
     
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  11. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    Probably true. I don't know what's the "easier" path, it almost sounds like from what LVG posted, that impeachment is easier.
     
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  12. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    Well for “informed” Trump voters that would mean boycotting posters of these guys and boycotting the wrong product:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. LVG

    LVG Who?! Contributor

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    I think impeachment is easier and far more certain in its result: it only takes a simple majority of the house and 2/3rds in the Senate, and then it's done. No questions, Trump is out.
     
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  14. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    I think it’s a pipe dream. The most that will happen is a partial impeachment like Clinton. For me the end game is possibly the above combined with a New York City indictment that will tank any re-election hopes. Despite all the Mueller stuff I am still not convinced it will bring down Trump verses bring down people around him.
     
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  15. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Registered User

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    Trump will order the attack on North Korea at the right time to undercut Mueller and potential impeachment.

    We will then be in a major war that will last years. Trump will use the war to rally public support and to label his persecutors as traitors.
     

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