Dare I say the "T" word . . . ?

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Ouchie-Z-Clown, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. pokerface

    pokerface Registered

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    Look, they had Chandler and Dudley AND Bledsoe last season and finished with second worst record. Where did all this veteran stuff get us? Len still acts clueless... Chandler didn't fix him much. I don't want to take any unnecessary chances with this draft!!! Chandler has only two seasons left anyway. It's like cut him loose already. Why do you think every other trade rumor involves Tyson? You need to think about that.

    Also, with Monroe coming off the books who is to say the suns couldn't pick up veteran free agents in the offseason? Let's take care of the draft FIRST and worry about all this other stuff in the offseason. If we draft high enough it's going to make a lot of other things easier moving forward. Easier to make trades... easier to attract free agents.
     
  2. Errntknght

    Errntknght Registered User

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    I believe that we got Bledsoe at such a seemingly low price because the Clips understood what was likely to happen if they kept him. Basically, he was just good enough that he could aspire to being a starting PG on a good team but they had Chris Paul, who was a top PG and quite young so Bled would be stymied. His agent was a nightmare to deal with, so they faced having to overpay him, on top of that. Plus he'd had a significant injury that could well recur. Quite sensibly, they decided to let another team deal with all that.
    Perhaps the Clips even understood that Bled's value as a two way player was dependent on him playing fewer minutes than expected of a starter. (He was a very good defender when he played at a frenzied pace but he couldn't maintain that for 32 plus minutes a game.) Whether they did or not, no one in Phoenix grasped that, so he really never lived up to all our expectations. He did fit right in with Hornacek's and McD's plans for an uptempo game and a pick and roll offense.

    The situation we face is somewhat different than the one the Clips did, Bledsoe wants to part company now. Like everyone else, I don't know why exactly, but I think he sees that we are not going to be good for some years and he doesn't want to be part of a lackluster team for the finish of his career. He'll probably be disappointed in the role Milwaukee wants him to play but, at least, he'll be on a team ascending. Or if his agent has him bucking for a massive contract they'll let him go.
     
  3. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    Bledsoe knew the Suns were not going to pay him the money he wanted in a future contract. I'm glad the Suns were smart enough not to go down that road. IMO, they dodged a bullet.
     
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  4. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    The Suns received first round picks in the Bledsoe and Thomas trades much more than the Suns traded for them. I can understand the mitigating circumstances of the Suns trading them.

    Of course if you want to refer to a bad trade, it was the trade for Knight. This stands out like a sore thumb.

    If one were to remove the Knight trade from the equation though, the Suns drafting might be more suspect than their trades.
     
  5. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    If that Laker pick ends up in the 10-14 range, even the Knight trade doesn't look horrible. Bad yes. But not horrible.

    I do think its amusing how McD's deals are compared to his previous trades for evaluation. "We got more than that for Markieff or Goran." The problem is that those trades were near miraculous in their return.

    Let's compare it to other disgruntled player trades. Paul George to OKC. Jimmy Butler to Minny (kinda), Kyrie to Boston.

    Or how about comparing it to DAR to Brooklyn. These are the major trades lately.
     
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  6. Poop Head

    Poop Head Poster formerly known as kingdad

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    A lot of people judge McD in weird ways. He has made some really good trades, like the Markieff and Dragic deals where he got great return for players who wanted out so the Suns had very little leverage. Those trades are forgotten or used as a measuring stick for all other deals he's made, like those represent average deals and anything less than those is a bad trade. He has made some bad deals like the Knight trade and then resigning but no GM is perfect. He's much better than Babby, Blanks or Steve Kerr was for the team.

    Compare the trades and draft picks McD has made over the last 5 years though to other teams and GM's in the league and he's no worse than average. I'd say he'd rank somewhere in the #10-15 range for top GM's in the league, maybe even higher. Look at what the Lakers have done in the last 5 years and tell me they've made better deals than the Suns have in terms of acquiring players through the draft, free agency, and trades. They've picked higher than the Suns, don't need to worry about the luxury tax like Phoenix does, and also have a rich championship history. Don't just compare his time with the team to the Lakers though, look elsewhere in the West at smaller markets like Portland and Utah, both teams have lost franchise players and have overpaid for role players while drafting kind of poorly. The Jazz drafted Gobert and the Blazers drafted McCollum. Those are the bright spots to those clubs over the last 5 years and in the case of Gobert, virtually every team in the league passed on the chance to draft him. I'm just using those as examples but look elsewhere, it's rare that a team goes from the lottery to contention without it taking years to build a solid core like the Warriors or the Clippers did over the last decade.

    I'm not saying that McD is perfect by any means but he's not an incompetent twit that some people make him out to be. He's definitely the best GM the Suns have had since Colangelo in the 90's.
     
  7. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    Using the Lakers an the Jazz to make the argument that McD is in the top 10-15 GMs in the league "or better" doesn't hold much water considering those two teams, especially the Lakers have been run by ATROCIOUS management.
     
  8. Poop Head

    Poop Head Poster formerly known as kingdad

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    Do you really want me to list every team that is managed worse than the Suns? Look at the teams that have playoff droughts and compare the moves they've made to the Suns. I think it's safe to say there are at least a dozen teams in the league that have been run worse than the Suns over the last few years like the Knicks, Nets, Lakers, Sacramento, Philly, New Orleans, Chicago, Atlanta, and Indiana off the top of my head. I know there are more, you could add the Mavericks to that with how far they've fallen after winning a title a few years ago. They dismantled that team but didn't seem to do it intentionally which makes it worse. Of course they did win a title but they're a long way from another. You can't say they've been run better than Phoenix over the last 4-5 years.

    McD isn't an awful GM, like I said he's average at worst but I'd say he's above average. He's drafted well and he's done what he can while dealing with Sarver and keeping him at bay so he can build a team.
     
  9. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    Gm's make mistakes. They take risks. Some work out, some don't. Sam Presti, who people thought was a miracle worker, traded away James Harden, let Durant get away, and traded away his future for Paul George who may walk at the end of this season.

    And he is still probably one of the better GM's.

    I think McD has been pretty good, and will likely get better because he is young and seems willing to admit and learn from his mistakes. If we were to fire him, the chances of the next guy being worse are probably 75% or better.
     
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  10. BillsCarnage

    BillsCarnage Registered

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  11. Carolinacacti

    Carolinacacti Registered

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    Its a lot easier to captain of a well run cruse line then the Titanic. McD must have aged 10 years running this ship. Hope he gets to see land soon.
     
  12. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    I was saying with the exception of Knight the Suns drafting might be more suspect than their trades.

    It sort of got spun around.
     
  13. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Your comments read like every team except he suns are playoff contenders and have been for years. LOTS of bad teams. Lots of teams Bad for years. The suns are one of many. They have officially tanked ONE season (and even then only half of last season).
     
  14. pokerface

    pokerface Registered

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    Suns have the longest losing streak at five in a row. The tank is showing it's strength at last...


    :titanic:






















    :violin:
     
  15. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    Ugh. The Suns keep coming up 6th in the simulator instead of 5th where their record would place them.
     

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