Article on JJ's contract

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by lancelet's cousin, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. JPlay

    JPlay JPlay

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    Shoulda kept Q, let JJ go if he wanted the Max. Drafted either Nate Robinson or Andre Blatche. Picked up Finley.

    The Suns woulda saved a butt-load of money and had flexibility to sign a 3 point shooter.

    The only way we the team can be salvaged if we lose JJ will be to get Finley.
     
  2. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    even that's incredibly short-term/frugal thinking. JJ is gonna be a star in this league - he's only 23, he's not on his last legs and constantly injured like Finley.

    Losing JJ will kill this team - in the present AND the future. I will start believeing that Sarver is a Sterling clone if he lets this kid walk. He made his bed last season by not signing him, now he has to freaking lie in it - that's what owners who want to win do for pete's sake.
     
  3. Joe Mama

    Joe Mama Moderator Contributor

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    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. First off, let me say that I do think the Phoenix Suns should match the offer for JJ. I think they should go for it all in the next year or two. If it doesn't work they'll have to move people.

    PROS

    The team is championship material if they have JJ back. He plays backup point guard, spreads the offense with his shooting, and is a solid perimeter defender. I also think they need to show Amare Stoudemire that they are serious about winning and will spend what it takes to get there.

    CONS

    They will have too much money wrapped up in their starting five by next season. Even after Kurt Thomas' contract expires they'll have around $55 million just in the other four players. Everybody keeps saying that JJ re-signed as a tradable commodity. I don't think that's necessarily true. If he plays up to or near to his contract the Phoenix Suns will want to trade JJ. If not, it's going to be difficult to trade him with a huge contract. At least it is supposedly frontloaded.

    I think the Phoenix Suns have to match the offer, and I think they will match the offer. They need to get that extension for Amare done, and I think this is important for that to happen. If JJ goes they better get a hell of a lot in a sign and trade. I don't think it will come to that though.

    Joe Mama
     
  4. boisesuns

    boisesuns Standing Tall And Traded

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    It's interesting how far JJ and his support has come. Just over a year ago, people were saying how soft he was. One season later, we are ready to pay him anything for him. He's proven himself.
     
  5. Joe Mama

    Joe Mama Moderator Contributor

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    JPlay, I like the Q trade regardless of the JJ situation. Q is not a substitute for JJ. They play the same position. That's about it.

    I do agree with those who are saying that the Phoenix Suns have made a lot of decisions that look bad now recently. In fact the only moves them look good right now are drafting Amare, trading for JJ, and signing Steve Nash.

    I think it's entirely possible that this is all posturing by the team and JJ and his agent as some have suggested.

    Joe
     
  6. boisesuns

    boisesuns Standing Tall And Traded

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    I know this is JJ thread, but if contract situations were going to be a problem in a few years, (with the resigned jj) Wouldn't the next year or two be a good time to trade marion for trade value reasons? I want marion here, but this is just an observation. I think the Q trade was a good one as well. Letting JJ go would not be good. Even a sign and trade would not get us someone who would help the team as much as JJ.
     
  7. TucsonDevil

    TucsonDevil Good to be back!

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    IF Saver wants to add to his bottom line, there are two ways to go about this: 1. Cut Expenses, 2. Increase Revenue.

    Since having a team contend for the title provides more opportunity for revenue streams (ticket sales, greater local TV/radio contracts, consessions, etc), I would suggest that Sarver pay JJ and Amare and start sticking it to the fans - since that is who is telling him how and where to spend his money.

    Increase the price of beer/popcorn by 35%; increase price of single tickets by 25%; renegotiate with local TV and Radio this off-season - even if you are in the middle of a contract. Go ahead and hold the city hostage if they want JJ. That will send a message...

    ...the kind of message that says, "I didn't buy this team to please the fans, I bought this team because I like to be entertained with my own product, I like being a community figure head, and I wanted to have a nice little cash cow. You fans (and Steve Nash/Amare explosion) are screwing it up for me.":thud:


    To be honest, I want to win a championship as much as the next guy (I have been routing for the Suns since the days of Kyle Macy, Rich Kelly, Maurice Lucas, Walter Davis, etc) but Sarver does reserve the right to make money from an investment if he can. I would only ask that Sarver have a little forward thinking on this...

    Of all the professional Sport Franchises in the Valley, the Phoenix Suns have the greatest potential to stay competitive year after year - which translates to the most amount of profit. With the growth of Phoenix and the valley, the Suns could win over fans with a team that is exciting to watch and continually winning divisions, conferences and titles over the next 6-7 years. Therefore, Sarver - you can add revenue streams - focus on that. Get creative in your approach - Don't focus on cutting expenses now, consider them to be business investments and not 'employee payroll'. They are wise investments.

    btw - if the Bidwells sold the Cardinals, the above statement would have to be modified to show the Suns have the #2 position (this really is a football state).
     
  8. JPlay

    JPlay JPlay

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    I would say JJ is as valuable to the Suns as Manu is to the Spurs. He should be getting a contract similar to Ginobli's.
     
  9. Arizona's Finest

    Arizona's Finest Your My Favorite Mistake

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    alright guys i am pissed....here is my problem. If bottom line is such freaking huge concern for sarver then play with the team this year and see what you got. If JJ get 20 million upfront like the hawks are threatning and amares max doesnt kick in until next season after that then make your run right now, assess at the end of the year what you have, and then deal the commodities availiable (most likely marion) if the suns dont win it all next year i have no problem with trading shawn and trying to have less money tied up into the starting payroll. Then we at least have two big time pieces to build around as well as an aging steve nash (who obviously still gets it done) I have defended Sarver in the past but if he pulls this kinda bull i am renouncing the suns. Like a former post said, I have never seen a team come this close and the owner be so unwilling to pony up. Id be willing to say even sterling would be pressured into buying in if he was in a simialar situation. The suns are too good of an org. to have a some kinda businessman/conman running the show. we have definatly been spoiled by JC, but i cant do anything but admonish Sarver for this even becoming a story.


    what a joke of a franchise we become if we let both JJ and q go (and letting Q go was the right move) and hope to contend with spare parts (and thats what finley is). and mark my words...if Amare is not sold on the fact that the owner will do anything to win there are some franchises in NY, LA, and Dallas who not only need him but will spend the cash to get him as well as whatever he wants. Sell the F---ing team if you cant handle the bottom line. Its one thing when you are losing but completly different if the past regime has handed you a winner. pull your head out of your a$$ sarver because it was your mistake last year and now you have to pay for it by spending the extra money. it was a risk that was assessed at the time and you crapped out. I urge all season ticket holders to demand refunds if this plays out because while the suns will be trying to con you that everyone was on board with this decision and that we can still contend,its a total fallacy. the last thing i need is another Bidwell to continue to break my heart and i wont stand for it and neither should you suns fans......
     
  10. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    Agreed. I guess the fans will learn about the new ownership July 22nd or a week thereafter.

    Is anyone else fearful that the only way out of this debacle is being forced to trade Shawn Marion to get some return value if the Suns sign JJ (rather than letting JJ walk)?

    They will be cash strapped and they can't even afford Steven Hunter. I hope they have a plan.

    Unfortunately I predicted a sign and trade would be forthcoming with JJ last year when the Suns didn't extend his contract... sadly, I didn't think it might be Marion that has to go.

    I don't think the Suns believe they can afford three max players and one high salaried player (Amare, Shawn, JJ and Nash) on their roster and maintain any wiggle room financially or in regard to acquiring additional players.

    This is not what I want and I sure hope I'm wrong. I guess this is where BC can prove if he is the general manager of the year if he can find a way out.
     
  11. Arizona's Finest

    Arizona's Finest Your My Favorite Mistake

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    and yes i understand business and i know you dont make money by throwing it down the drain....but Sarver needs to realize this isnt corporate america. Taking hits at this time provides future stability and more importantly faith in yout org. So before anyone comes out and says "this is his team and he has every right...." forget that.. at least most owners try to paint it as a basketball decision but there is no one in h-ll who is going to tell me we can recover from this type of parsimoney. If you are such a magnate who is interested in making money only, then give up your seats (thats about 10 grand right there), sell the rattlers and cut some of the uglier dancers....but letting JJ go is a mistake that will haunt us for sometime....esp if Amare decides he does'nt like the way this is all going........
     
  12. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    I think this is pretty funny.

    NOTHING has changed between now and 2 weeks ago except that everyone on this message board seems to be overreacting. Sure, there's some confusion about what will happen, but there's still a week until we know for sure--most of this is all just positioning anyway. We don't even know what JJ is thinking, for all we know, all this could be a smokescreen. In fact, did anyone NOT expect something like this to happen? If not, I'd say they might be pretty naive.

    Not offering a max contract was a smart thing to do--and we all expected JJ to probably sign an offer sheet with someone--I didn't expect Atlanta to be that team, I actually thought Cleveland would do it, but big deal. I find it very hard to believe that we'll just let him walk without anything in return, so as long as that worry isn't there, we've got some breathing room.

    I just think everyone is overreacting because a) it's not even July 22nd yet, and b) most of us expected this to happen.
     
  13. ActingWild

    ActingWild Rom 8:38-39

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    Marion is a perfect fit for this team. He doesn't need to have plays called for him, plays tough D (How many people could slow Dirk Nowitzki down as much as Shawn?), rebounds the heck out of the ball, sprints up and down the floor and does all the little intangibles. Trading him would be a mistake.
     
  14. Treesquid

    Treesquid Pardon my Engrish

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    Trading Marion this year or next year would be a mistake. However, I think this is how it will play out.


    Sarver bites the bullets matches or signs JJ outright the Suns have a 2 year plan for the title after that they will look at reorganizing the team by either moving Marion or Thomas etc.... In reality only Amare will likely be the closest thing to untouchable over the next 5 years.
     
  15. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    Okay I can see the villagers have grabbed their torches and pitchforks.

    JJ isn't worth the contract that he has been given. There, I said it. In his contract year, he managed to dramatically increase his shooting averages playing in an offense that caters to his abilities. I firmly believe that any decent guard will flourish in this system, just look at Jim Jackson.

    When you have Amare drawing double teams and Nash breaking down the defense, shots will be open and they will be there.

    If JJ thinks he deserves to be "the man", then by all means he is welcome to try. He hasn't given the slightest shred of notice that he is capable of doing so. He is nothing more than a nice third option. He won't be an All Star because he never consistently dominates a game like an All Star does.

    If we match JJ, then great. We will have two third options making first option money.

    If we don't match JJ, then someone else out there is going to get a great opportunity to play with a dominant big man, a great PG, and a fun system.
     

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