Rolle Demoted, Edge Next?
August 21, 2007 by Walter Mitchell
Ken Whisenhunt and his staff are going to play the best players for their system, period. That is why just yesterday the news from camp was that the Cardinals’ highly-touted first round pick in 2005, CB Antrel Rolle, has been relegated to the second team in favor of 2007 unrestricted free agent signee, Roderick Hood. After struggling in pass coverage the past two seasons and the first two pre-season games this year, Antrel Rolle has finally received the scrutiny that his sub-par play has warranted. It may have taken a new head coach to pull the strings on this one, but it was a move that clearly sends a message to all the Cardinal players: the best players play. The question is, is Rolle’s demotion just the tip of the iceberg? Will Whisenhunt have the audacity to bench RB Edgerrin James who has danced his way to 14 yards on 7 carries (2.0 ave.) this pre-season while Marcel Shipp (11/47, 4.3) and J.J. Arrington (16/67, 4.2) are hitting the holes faster?
What to Make of Rolle’s Demotion:
Coming into the 2005 NFL Draft there’s no question that Rolle was a virtual lock to be a top ten pick. Defensive backs with his size and aggressiveness are hard to pass up. There was a question, however, in some NFL scouts’ minds as to whether Rolle would be better suited to play safety, rather than corner, particularly in light of the NFL 5 yard contact rule for cornerbacks.
TSN’s reporter Matt Hayes wrote the following about Antrel Rolle prior to the 2005 draft:
“It’s aggressive play, though, that could work against Rolle. The NFL’s recent emphasis on rules regarding contact beyond 5 yards past the line of scrimmage have made it hard for even the best cornerbacks in the league to play man coverage. Rolle thrived on physical play in college–most notably, his ability to knock receivers at the the line and disrupt routes–and could struggle with the transistion to the next level.”
Hayes goes on to write: “The only issue is how his game will change–and more important, his mentality–once he is handcuffed by the contact rule.”
As we Cardinal fans have learned, Hayes’ analysis has been prophetic.
Much of the time, Rolle tries to compensate for the contact rule and his lack of recovery speed by playing a ten yard cushion on his man. But, this enables the opposing offense to throw easy seven yard out passes in Rolle’s direction at will. How often do defenses want to give up an easy seven to ten yards?
Then, whenever Rolle’s man takes him deep –even when Rolle is right with his man and doesn’t have to panic–he shows a bad habit of reaching out to grab or hold the receiver, thus resulting in obvious pass interference calls.
It seems that when the ball is headed toward Rolle’s man he can’t help but make contact with his man. Take his two pass interference calls this pre-season. On the first one, Rolle was beaten to the inside on a post at the goal-line…not by much, but enough that Rolle was screened off on the play, so Rolle extended his arm and put his hand on the receiver’s back. The contact was readily apparent and thus the flag went flying. It wasn’t egregious pass interference by any means…but it was warranted as the result of contact.
On his second interference call, Rolle didn’t resort to using his hands this time, but he performed a box out drill with his posterior and walled his man out of bounds as the ball was in the air. Again…leaving the official with no other choice but to enforce the contact rule.
It appears that Rolle just can’t help himself…
Rolle is also the victim perhaps of playing in the wrong type of system for him. The War Room scouts had this to say about Rolle in their 2005 Draft guide: “He is most effective in tight man coverage. He would fit best with a team that emphasizes man-to-man coverage.”
How often do the Cardinals play tight man coverage? They should like most NFL teams, but because Pendergast is so zone happy, the Cardinals don’t.
And it certainly hasn’t helped Rolle to be playing on an island much of the time in Arizona due to the fact that he hasn’t has even adequate safety help behind him. Having a good free safety allows any cornerback to play more aggressively without the fear of getting beat.
What Now for Rolle?
Can a switch to safety come soon enough? How about at least a modified role (Rolle)?
Clancy Pendergast devised a perfect set of schemes in order to play to Adrian Wilson’s strengths. Now, Pendergast needs to do the same with Rolle, by playing him in or close to the box and keeping his coverage responsibilities simple…such as covering the flat in zone or the TE in man. In both cases, Rolle would not have to worry nearly as much about getting beat deep. He can run stride for stride with any TE in the league, and he is very effective in the flat because he can be super aggressive in both pass coverage within the 5 yard contact rule, and in run support, where he is a flat-out keg of dynamite.
Will Rolle ever be a star in this league?
Once his role is modified to suit his strengths, he will shine like the Arizona sun.
How about Rolle at free safety?
It may be interesting to see if he has the instincts to play that position, but iot would appear that he lacks the requisite speed to be an effective centerfielder. However, Rolle would likely be another lights-out hitter like Robert Griffith back there, and probably be even better in run support.
But, because Rolle is so tenacious in or near the box, his skills seem tailor-made for the strong safety position.
Can Pendergast play two strong safeties, in Wilson and Rolle, at once?
This is where Pendergast’s creativity could make a huge splash. There are ways for defensive coordinators to get their best eleven players on the field at the same time…but usually that requires some creative thinking and role modifications.
Imagine how excited we the fans would be if Pendergast finds the right role for Rolle so that he can begin thriving all the time in this defense! How excited were we when Rolle made those huge stops in run support early versus the Texans? This kid brings it so well…there has to be the right fit for him in this defense.
Is Edgerrin James’ starting job really in jeopardy?
Yes it is. Do you think Russ Grimm cares about Edgerrin James’ feelings? How much would Grimm care about James’ feelings the next time Edge danced and shuffled his feet through a seven foot wide hole that Grimm’s line just busted open for him? Whose feelings do you think Whiz cares more about, Grimm’s or Edge’s?
The harbinger for this scenario occurred last year when Mike Kruczek took over as offensive coordinator. Kruczek was complaining that Edge wasn’t hitting the holes fast enough, so Kruczek spent the bye week handing the ball off to Edge and goading him to hit the holes faster. That took major cajones on Kruczek’s part, challenging an All-Pro RB like Edge. And with the help of a reshuffled and improved offensive line, the Cardinals did run the ball better with Coach Kruczek in charge. And they might have run the ball for even more yards if Edge didn’t show an uncanny propensity to trip over his own feet or run into his own man whenever he did get into the open field.Â
If Edgerrin James doesn’t start hitting the holes and start running for daylight…he’s out of a starting job.
These coaches want to win.
Posted in arizona cardinals, football
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I disagree with both of your takes on the Rolle PI calls. The first one, the contact happened right as the ball got there. (from what I remember)
The second PI call in the last game was even worse. Using the sideline as a defender is a wonderful strategy. Johnson had his hands all over Rolle as well, including pushing off on him. You said that they had no choice but to throw the flag, due to the no contact rule, but the call was pass interference and not illegal contact. The referees got both plays wrong.
That doesn’t mean that Rolle didn’t deserve to be benched. I just disagree on your take of those two penalties.
With all due respect Nicholas, if you have the tape, go back and watch the first one…the contact occurred before the ball arrived, and even so, all the official has to see is the DB’s hand on the WR’s back and it’s pass interference, just as if a DB tries to work around a WR to deflect a pass and has his hand on the WR’s back, it’s pass interference…and has been ever since they changes the contact rule four years ago.
On the second one, you’re right that it’s a good strategy for a DB to use the sideline to his advantage by narrowing the WR’s route, but the DB cannot force the WR out of bounds by any sort of contact, which includes a DB using his butt to box the man out.
I refuse to believe that Edge’s job is really in jeopardy because he doesn’t really try in the preseason. Ever since Edge signed here everyone seems to want to run him out of town, which is crazy because he is easily the best runningback this team has had since moving to Arizona. Wait til the regular season to pass judgement on Edge and the rest of the proven guys, because that is when it counts.
Green Machine…maybe you should change your member name to Whiz Machine now that Whiz is in charge…but as for Edge, isn’t he running this pre-season the same way he was last year? Do you really think anything’s any different?
Plus, if you are having to make excuses for a so-called All-Pro RB who is taking it easy because it’s the pre-season, what does that say about the player’s character?
Did you watch any of the Bears/Colts game last night? It was a pre-season game and Marvin Harrison was catching in routes and getting clobbered by the Bears’ safety…not just once but two other times. Each time, Harrison bounced up, flipped the ball to the ref and ran back to the huddle. To him, this is the game and this is why he is a perennial All-Pro.
Good football comes from good habits…and from going all-out all the time, whether it’s practice or a game. The great ones do…they don’t just decide to turn it on when they want to.
I don’t want to run Edge out of town…don’t get me wrong. If he starts hitting the holes on time and starts really finishing off runs, he can stay as long as he likes.
Nice job, Mitch. And to think we could have drafted Adrian “I’m gonna be a star” Peterson.
I think I’m going to draft Shipp as a reserve for my Fantasy Football team.
Mitch, the green in my name has nothing to do with Denny. Green just happens to be my last name.
As for Edge, that poor running style still gained 1159 yards last year behind a mostly horrid offensive line. Towards the end of the season he looked much better. Was he running harder? Doubtful, just the line opened up holes. Edge will be fine when the games count.
As for the Harrison comparison, I think it is different for a WR then it is for a runningback. Edge knows he’s going to take a beating with all the carries he gets, and it just isn’t worth getting dinged up or hurt during the games that don’t matter. He isn’t the first runningback to take that approach, and I’m sure he won’t be the last one.
All that said, I do enjoy your writeups. They are very well written and very informative.
“Plus, if you are having to make excuses for a so-called All-Pro RB who is taking it easy because it’s the pre-season, what does that say about the player’s character? ”
Well then you must not have a high impression of LT either. Hasnt had a single rush or reception in 2 preseason games. Its LT who is pushing for that by the way not the coaches.
There is also a big difference between the Rolle demotion and maybe demoting Edge. Rolle wasnt just playing bad in preseason he was playing bad and showing bad technique in practice as well. As of right now the coaches themselves think Edge is having a great camp. In fact Wiz even stated during an interview that Edge is the hardest working and most intentive player in camp this year.
My apologies Green Machine! Thanks for the thoughts…keep ‘em coming!
Joe: I KNEW you were going to bring up LT…I knew it! So I have been prepared to respond to that. First of all, LT is an elite back, Edge is not. Secondly, the Chargers won 14 games last year and their whole offensive line is back, so the continuity is there. Thirdly, if LT did play in a pre-season game, do you really think he would take it easy and run half-heartedly? LT only has one gear and that’s full tiilt boogy.
Whiz may have been cozying up to Edge early on…but seriously, Joe, no coach could be happy with the way Edge is running in the pre-season games. There’s a noticable difference when Shipp and now even Arrington run the ball…they are quicker to the hole and do not go down on first contact the way Edge does.
All this said, if Edge runs hard and well, it would be a major boost for this team.
I think that winning games would be a major boost to this team. Clinton Portis, Thomas Jones, and Travis Henry have all been injured so far playing in only 2 preseason games. Edge doesn’t care if the team gets a boost in the third preseason game–the whole team gets to see him every day in practice.
He’s not suffering a knee injury running hard for meaningless yards in a preseason game. As for him not being an elite back… well, I don’t know how the 19th leading rusher in NFL history and the career active leader really needs to prove anything to you.
Has Edge given you or anyone else a reason to believe he is the 19th leading rusher ever since he’s been in Arizona? Emmitt Smith ran harder and tougher for the Cardinals on his last legs. Maybe Edge will be different this year…it would be great. Thus far in pre-season it’s been the same dancing squirt for two or three yards Edge he was last year.
Emmitt Smith didn’t participate in the preseason, either.
Game.
Set.
Match.
This blog, has some issues in logic, mainly because of the anti-Edge portion. Rolle and Edge are two completely different players in two completely different circumstances, it is rather clear you cannot make the slippery slope connect the author has done here. This a great example of how fans make large illogical leaps after watching preseason games, not taking into account practice or locker room chemistry.
Firstly, Edge has put in the time this off-season and by all accounts of Jureki, Wolfly and coach and others reporting on the program have agreed Edge is a true professional, putting in the time at practice, always acknowledging that he can improve and is a real leader on the team. Rolle has NOT done any of those things at any point in his career.
Rolle has never once in his career shown he cares to do what it takes to improve, nor has he even shown the results or gained the full respect of his teammates, why is it that Edge seems to be held in such high regard by his teammates and coaches?
Making the assertion that Coach Grimm is somehow mad at Edge, is a leap at best, Grimm being a pro’s pro and leader of the hogs would hardly be the type of coach to position for a benching of a borderline hall of famer, one of the hardest workers on the team in favor of a one trick fan favorite or JJ Arrington, if anything he like true professionals would not leap to conclusions on starters based on one play or meaningless glorified scrimmage, certainly this is where you are mistaken, Rolle has been evaluated over multiple years of film, camps, practices and real games. Make no mistake this preseason game was likely just an opportune time to drive a point to Rolle.
Next, the Preseason itself, leads to a lot of confusion and thus large logical leaps of emotional change demanded by fans and want to be coaches. By nature, it looks like a game and it smells like a game but it’s a not a game, and unfortunately anyone with some high school football back round can trick themselves that these games actually mean anything for starters. One or two plays can cause a tremendous amount of dissent, threads will start about trick plays “showing too much”, undrafted free agents beating low expectations against guys who will never play a real NFL game are instantly thrusted into Payton Manning or TO like status. I love to bring up the Martay Jenkins principal, many a cardinal fan feel in love with Mar-tay one summer night agains tthe chargers, unfortunately it was a glorified practice and Mar-tay hasn’t quite lived up to the grandiose predictions of the preseason fanatic. Finally the most deplorable part of all of this is the preseason fanatic will often complete forget or tell you that their analysis does not matter now
“The Edge doesn’t hit the hole” theories are largely a idealistic preference of style congered up by Marcel Shipp fans to jockey for their guy to get the starting nod. Unfortunately for them, results are results and results don’t count in the preseason and Marcell Shipp has never proven to deserve the starting role over Edge other than the preseason. Unfortunately for Edge, he has the burden of proof of the high expectations crowd, plus his running style is methodical and boring when compared to a runner like Shipp. He will likely never meet those expectations of those who still feel Leshaun Johnson had an ideal style of running, even though he never had any results outside of two games.
One poster above put it perfectly when he compared LT to Edge. I am sure in San Diego right now there is some internet warrior flexing his e-penis calling for his favorite undrafted free agent RB to take the starting role because he ran through the 7 yard gapping hole in the preseason. The only thing worse than the anti edge crowd is the crowd that actually thought Preston Parsons was the future of the Arizona Cardinals, I am going to take a wild stab and say the OP was one.
Wow. Treesquid with a tour de force performance. Stunning.
Can we put together a preseason All Pro team?
QB - Preston Parsons
RB - Damien Anderson
WR - Martay Jenkins
DE - Calvin Pace
Anyone else?
Clyde Duncan
Walter, you are dead-on about Edge. I’ve been posting the same thing, and if I remember correctly, cheesebeef agrees with us too.
Disagree about Rolle. My guess is he’ll be cut in the final cutdown.
Good reading, treesquid, even ig you are wrong about Edge.
Lastly, love the action the blogs are getting. Thanks to all. Even the sarcastic stuff was worth reading.
Treesquid: Kudos for a clever and well wriiten rebuttal. However, you danced (like Edge) into the gist of the RB situtation this year when you referred to “styles” of running. The question is, does Edge’s style fit the new system?
At Indy, Edge’s style was tailor-made for their zone blocking system, where Edge was supposed to slide behind the zone wall, then find a crease and squirt through it for as many yards as he could get. Plus, he had the advantage of playing in an offense that boasted the most productive passer in the NFL, so opposing defenses were loath to stack the box, especially since PM would audible and pick them apart where they left themselves vulnerable.
Last year, Dennis Green and Keith Rowen opened mini-camps and training camp by trying to install a zone blocking scheme to fit Edge’s style, only, as we saw, the o-line personnel could not run it.
This year, Whiz isn’t changing his power running system to fit Edge. Either Edge will start to hit holes with alacrity and decisiveness or he will find himself getting fewer snaps…the dancing to find a hole days are now over for Edge, at least while he’s still here.
To Edge’s credit he has been accountable this off-season and he has made an effort to endear the new coaches with his attitude…and thus, who knows?…maybe he will do what the coaches want him to when the real games start. That would be ideal.
As for the Preston Parsons remark…there was no reason, after writing a clever and intelligent response to resort to hyperbole. For the record, once again for the ten billionth time (more hyperbole), I made the remark that because Parsons showed some talent in rallying the Cardinals to a pre-season win that at the end of a horrible season (I think the Cards were 3-13 or 4-12) the Cardinals should give him a start to see what he could do. At no point did I ever suggest that he was the future at QB, and it was irresponsible of you to suggest that I did. All I ever wanted for was the Cards to give him a chance in a real game, so we all could judge for oursleves.
One thing is for sure…one will never know what a player will do at a certain position until he is tried there…like Antrel Rolle at safety, where I believe he will shine…like QB Jeff Garcia–whoever thought he would ever even play in an NFL game?, let alone light up the scorebaord in many. Some players seize the opportunity…but if they never get it, how would anyone ever really know?
LT hasnt run in preseason since his rookie year. Way before his becoming this elite RB that takes a t least a few years to happen before getting that title.
You also thought that Edge should have run more last offseason to get acclimated to a new style and new OL. What about LT getting acclimated to a completely new coaching staff, new terminology, and with a new coaching staff comes new philosophies, styles, and play calls. Why does LT get the pass, or any other of the top 20 RB’s in the elague who all havent run or caught the ball.
Also Skorp we dont have the cap space to cut Rolle. It will cost us 2.5 Mill in cap space this season and 2.5 Mill in cap space next offseason. It isnt going to happen.
There is absolutely no way Edge gets benched. None. I think Whis wants to throw early and run late in games. And, James is just that sort of back. He showed great endurance last year and has always been a 4th quarter runner.
Joe: the Chargers’ offense hasn’t changed at all…Norv turner was the perfect fit because he originated the scheme…and the o-line remains intact…the continuity is there.
The Cardinals would have takers for Rolle if they put him on the market…but like Joe says the cap hit for the Cards would be heavy just to trade him.
I want the Cards to keep Rolle and fit him onto the defense where he can be productive, which is in or near the box…when defensive players are interviewed and asked about their DC’s and their systems what do they almost always say? The coaches put us in the right positions to make plays…that’s what CP needs to do with Rolle, as he’s done with A-Dub, put him in the right positions to make plays.
I don’t get all the criticism for a guy who averaged 4.2 yards per carry for a total of 643 yards in the 2nd half of last season.
Ron Wolfley pointed out yesterday that, although Antrel will occasionally make a big hit on run-force, he’s not good at breaking down and tackling in space filling a safety’s role. And Whiz has already made it pretty clear that either Rolle makes it as a CB or he doesn’t make it at all.
Regarding Edge - we’re seeing the same lack of productivity we saw last preseason and yet by the end of the season, he had racked up 1200 yards (the most from a Cardinal since OJ Anderson). That’s not to say that we might not see a change later in the season if the pattern continues, but not now.
Finally, the hope during the course of a preseason and regular season is that, with each passing week, there are more and more answers and fewer and fewer questions. Yet there seems to be the inclination by you and some others to want to blow up the roster each week depending on the previous week’s performance. Continuity matters.
Jeff Gollin speaks for me, except about Edgerrin James. Jeff, you usually trust your own eyes.
I like the demotion of Rolle at this time. I am sure this isn’t a shock to Rolle and his response will determine his future. 0% chance he gets cut…who do we have behind him? CB is already a very thin position.
If Whis had a problem with Edge…they have discussed it. Edge is a Pro and has delivered in this league…year after year.